WRG - User contributions [en]

User talk:Rlward

2016-11-01T14:38:54Z

Bruce Whitney: /* Broken Link */ new section

{{UserTalk}}

[[User:Rlward/Archived_Messages|Old Messages]] 1 Jan 2006 through 30 Jun 2016.

== 10 years later - are you still working on this project? ==

Hello Mr. Ward -

I see that I started to input our family history 10 years ago and you so kindly gave me my great grandfather Henry Mitchell Whitney and my grandfather James Lyman Whitney - and his name sake was brother to Henry Mitchell (James Lyman Whitney Sr) - If I can, I will input the info I have.

Joanna Goodrich Whitney

joanna.whitney@gmx.com

== Broken Link ==

On the page http://wiki.whitneygen.org/wrg/index.php/Archive:The_Descendants_of_John_Whitney, the link to archived scans is broken.

Thanks

User:Bruce Whitney

2014-11-17T20:36:52Z

Bruce Whitney:

{{Start Boxes}}
{{User John}}
{{Lineage}}
{{End Boxes}}
[[Category: WRG Members|{{PAGENAME}}]]


I do not even consider myself an amateur genealogist. I just want to find out more about my family. When I started, I knew my fathers and grandfathers names (and wives names) because they were on their tombstones. I was lucky enough to find the WRG within the first ten years of on-again off-again searching. That was a big enough leap with the photocopies and transcription project of Pierce to give me impetus to continue. As I get older, I also find less and less people to ask about sources, photos, and family stories.

User:Bruce Whitney

2014-11-17T20:36:30Z

Bruce Whitney:

{{Start Boxes}}
{{User John}}
{{Lineage}}
{{End Boxes}}
[[Category: WRG Members|{{PAGENAME}}]]


I do not even consider myself an amateur genealogist. I just want to find out more about my family. When I started, I knew my fathers and grandfathers names (and wives names) because they were on their tombstones. I was lucky enough to find the WRG within the first ten years of on-again of-again searching. That was a big enough leap with the photocopies and transcription project of Pierce to give me impetus to continue. As I get older, I also find less and less people to ask about sources, photos, and family stories.

Archive:Cemeteries

2007-08-17T00:08:32Z

Bruce Whitney:

{{Breadcrumb|Archives}}
== England ==
:[[Archive:St. Nicholas, Norton Canon, Herefordshire, England Monumental Inscriptions|St. Nicholas, Norton Canon, Herefordshire, England Monumental Inscriptions]]

===California===
:[[Archive:Marysville, California, Cemeteries|Marysville, Historic Marysville City Cemetery]]
===Colorado===
:[[Archive:El Paso County, Colorado, Cemeteries|Colorado Springs, El Paso Co., Evergreen Cemetery]]
===Connecticut===
:[[Archive:Darien, Connecticut, Cemeteries|Darien]]<br />
:[[Archive:Stamford, Connecticut, Cemeteries|Stamford]]<br />
:[[Archive:Killingly, Connecticut, Cemeteries|Killingly]]
===District of Columbia===
:[[Archive:Washington, District of Columbia Cemeteries|Washington]]
===Illinois===
:[[Archive:Ogle County, Illinois, Cemeteries|Pecatonica, Ogle Co., 12 Mile Grove Cemetery]]<br />
:[[Archive:Henry County, Illinois, Cemeteries|Henry Co., Clover Chapel and Woodhull Cemeteries]]
===Indiana===
:[[Archive:Delaware County, Indiana, Cemeteries|Delaware Co.]]
===Iowa===
:[[Archive:Waterloo, Iowa, Cemeteries|Waterloo, Black Hawk Co., Fairview Cemetery]]<br />
:[[Archive:Buchanan County, Iowa, Cemeteries|Quasqueton, Buchanan Co., Iowa, Cemetery]]<br />
:[[Archive:Sabula, Iowa, Cemeteries|Sabula, Jackson Co., Evergreen Cemetery]]<br />
:[[Archive:Sabula,Iowa, Cemeteries|Sabula, Jackson Co, Union Cemetery]]<br />
:[[Archive:Shelby, Iowa, Cemeteries|Elk Horn, Shelby Co, Clay Township (AKA Oakridge) Cemetery]]<br />
===Kansas===
:[[Archive:Milford-Shenck-Branscom Cemetery, Milford, Kansas]]<br />
===Maine===
:[[Archive:Franklin County, Maine, Cemeteries|Franklin Co.]]<br />
:[[Archive:Penobscot County, Maine, Cemeteries|Penobscot Co.]]
===Massachusetts===
:[[Archive:Orange, Massachusetts, Cemeteries|Orange, Franklin Co.]]<br />
:[[Archive:Groton, Massachusetts, Cemeteries|Groton, Middlesex Co.]]<br />
:[[Archive:Boston, Cemeteries|Boston, Suffolk Co.]]<br />
:[[Archive:Worcester County, Massachusetts, Cemeteries|Worcester Co.]]<br />
:[[Archive:Nashaway Towns, Massachusetts, Cemeteries|The Nashaway Towns:]] Lancaster, Harvard, Bolton, Leominster, Sterling, Berlin, West Boylston, and Hudson<br />
:[[Archive:Athol, Massachusetts, Cemeteries|Athol, Worcester Co.]]<br />
:[[Archive:Fitchburg, Massachusetts, Cemeteries|Fitchburg, Worcester Co.]]
===Michigan===
:[[Archive:Livingston County, Michigan, Cemeteries|Livingston Co.]]<br />
:[[Archive:Muskegon, Michigan, Cemeteries|Muskegon Co.]]
===Nebraska===
:[[Archive:Cedar County, Nebraska, Cemeteries|Coleridge, Cedar Co.]]<br />
===New York===
:[[Archive:Canaseraga, New York, Cemeteries|Burns, Allegany Co., Canaseraga Cemetery]]<br />
:[[Archive:Angola, New York, Cemeteries|Angola, Erie Co., Forrest Avenue Cemetery]]<br />
:[[Archive:Fort Covington, New York, Cemeteries|Fort Covington, Franklin Co., Fort Covington Cemetery]]<br />
:[[Archive:Ontario County, New York, Cemeteries|Ontario Co.]]<br />
:[[Archive:Washington County, New York, Cemeteries|Washington Co.]]<br />
:[[Archive:Wayne County, New York, Cemeteries|Wayne Co.]]<br />
:[[Archive:Binghampton, New York, Cemetaries|Binghamton, Broome Co., Spring Forest Cemetery]]
:[[Archive:Bainbridge, New York, Cemeteries|Bainbridge, Chenango Co., Kirby Cemetery]]
:[[Archive:Lisle, New York, Cemeteries|Lisle, Broome Co., Lisle Village Cemetery]]
:[[Archive:Albany, New York, Cemeteries|Albany, Albany Co.]]

===Pennsylvania===
:[[Archive:North Flat Cemetery, North Flat, Pennsylvania|North Flat, Wyoming Co., North Flat Cemetery]]
===Vermont===
:[[Archive:Tunbridge, Vermont, Cemeteries|Tunbridge, Orange Co., Whitney Hill Cemetery]]
:[[Archive:Waterbury, Vermont, Cemeteries|Old Waterbury Center Cemetery]]
----
Copyright © 1999-2006 The [[Whitney Research Group]]

Archive:Cemeteries

2007-08-17T00:05:02Z

Bruce Whitney: /* Iowa */

{{Breadcrumb|Archives}}
== England ==
:[[Archive:St. Nicholas, Norton Canon, Herefordshire, England Monumental Inscriptions|St. Nicholas, Norton Canon, Herefordshire, England Monumental Inscriptions]]

===California===
:[[Archive:Marysville, California, Cemeteries|Marysville, Historic Marysville City Cemetery]]
===Colorado===
:[[Archive:El Paso County, Colorado, Cemeteries|Colorado Springs, El Paso Co., Evergreen Cemetery]]
===Connecticut===
:[[Archive:Darien, Connecticut, Cemeteries|Darien]]<br />
:[[Archive:Stamford, Connecticut, Cemeteries|Stamford]]<br />
:[[Archive:Killingly, Connecticut, Cemeteries|Killingly]]
===District of Columbia===
:[[Archive:Washington, District of Columbia Cemeteries|Washington]]
===Illinois===
:[[Archive:Ogle County, Illinois, Cemeteries|Pecatonica, Ogle Co., 12 Mile Grove Cemetery]]<br />
:[[Archive:Henry County, Illinois, Cemeteries|Henry Co., Clover Chapel and Woodhull Cemeteries]]
===Indiana===
:[[Archive:Delaware County, Indiana, Cemeteries|Delaware Co.]]
===Iowa===
:[[Archive:Waterloo, Iowa, Cemeteries|Waterloo, Black Hawk Co., Fairview Cemetery]]<br />
:[[Archive:Buchanan County, Iowa, Cemeteries|Quasqueton, Buchanan Co., Iowa, Cemetery]]<br />
:[[Archive:Sabula, Iowa, Cemeteries|Sabula, Jackson Co., Evergreen Cemetery]]<br />
:[[Archive:Sabula,Iowa, Cemeteries|Sabula, Jackson Co, Union Cemetery]]<br />
:[[Archive:Elk Horn, Iowa, Cemeteries|Elk Horn, Shelby Co, Clay Township (AKA Oakridge) Cemetery]]<br />

===Kansas===
:[[Archive:Milford-Shenck-Branscom Cemetery, Milford, Kansas]]<br />
===Maine===
:[[Archive:Franklin County, Maine, Cemeteries|Franklin Co.]]<br />
:[[Archive:Penobscot County, Maine, Cemeteries|Penobscot Co.]]
===Massachusetts===
:[[Archive:Orange, Massachusetts, Cemeteries|Orange, Franklin Co.]]<br />
:[[Archive:Groton, Massachusetts, Cemeteries|Groton, Middlesex Co.]]<br />
:[[Archive:Boston, Cemeteries|Boston, Suffolk Co.]]<br />
:[[Archive:Worcester County, Massachusetts, Cemeteries|Worcester Co.]]<br />
:[[Archive:Nashaway Towns, Massachusetts, Cemeteries|The Nashaway Towns:]] Lancaster, Harvard, Bolton, Leominster, Sterling, Berlin, West Boylston, and Hudson<br />
:[[Archive:Athol, Massachusetts, Cemeteries|Athol, Worcester Co.]]<br />
:[[Archive:Fitchburg, Massachusetts, Cemeteries|Fitchburg, Worcester Co.]]
===Michigan===
:[[Archive:Livingston County, Michigan, Cemeteries|Livingston Co.]]<br />
:[[Archive:Muskegon, Michigan, Cemeteries|Muskegon Co.]]
===New York===
:[[Archive:Canaseraga, New York, Cemeteries|Burns, Allegany Co., Canaseraga Cemetery]]<br />
:[[Archive:Angola, New York, Cemeteries|Angola, Erie Co., Forrest Avenue Cemetery]]<br />
:[[Archive:Fort Covington, New York, Cemeteries|Fort Covington, Franklin Co., Fort Covington Cemetery]]<br />
:[[Archive:Ontario County, New York, Cemeteries|Ontario Co.]]<br />
:[[Archive:Washington County, New York, Cemeteries|Washington Co.]]<br />
:[[Archive:Wayne County, New York, Cemeteries|Wayne Co.]]<br />
:[[Archive:Binghampton, New York, Cemetaries|Binghamton, Broome Co., Spring Forest Cemetery]]
:[[Archive:Bainbridge, New York, Cemeteries|Bainbridge, Chenango Co., Kirby Cemetery]]
:[[Archive:Lisle, New York, Cemeteries|Lisle, Broome Co., Lisle Village Cemetery]]
:[[Archive:Albany, New York, Cemeteries|Albany, Albany Co.]]

===Pennsylvania===
:[[Archive:North Flat Cemetery, North Flat, Pennsylvania|North Flat, Wyoming Co., North Flat Cemetery]]
===Vermont===
:[[Archive:Tunbridge, Vermont, Cemeteries|Tunbridge, Orange Co., Whitney Hill Cemetery]]
:[[Archive:Waterbury, Vermont, Cemeteries|Old Waterbury Center Cemetery]]
----
Copyright © 1999-2006 The [[Whitney Research Group]]

User talk:Tdoyle

2007-08-15T23:51:37Z

Bruce Whitney: DNA

{{UserTalk}}

==Pages with Many Photos==
Each Reunion has a page of snapshots which have many images. I'm in no rush to import them. Unique naming of the images is an issue. You did well on the Heraldry page, but I'm not sure I'd have called one of the images "Benjamin.jpg", as that name is probably not specific enough.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 20:37, 29 January 2006 (CST)

== My Database ==
Tim: A few issues, indeed! The reference numbers need to be separated by commas. Of course there are issues of missing spaces. Also, the fact that Elinor had three versions of her given name, and therefore also three versions of her married name, is a problem. I don't know how to deal with that. I could suppress the export of married names if that would help.

- [[User_talk:Rlward|Robert]] 21:28, 3 February 2006 (CST)

== Thanks for the message ==
Hi Tim,

Thanks for the message about Charles M. Whitney. I got too tired last night before I could get what we know about him online. We have information about his later life, but the beginnings are sketchy. I have managed to track him down in 1860 - he's a lawyer in Troy, NY. Beyond that, I am having difficulty finding his parents.

You said you had a list from ancestry of 9 Charles Whitneys from this time period - would you mind sending it to me, as I don't have an ancestry subscription?

I've been working through the 1850 census from Heritage Quest, but have eliminated most of the Charles Whitneys that I can find. The one other clue we have is that his son, Charles F., had an 'A.J. Whitney' in his personal notebook. My father-in-law remembers hearing about an 'Uncle AJ', as well. We believe that this is Alonzo J. Whitney, who married Melissa J. Rice. I've managed to find marriage records for Alonzo, who is the son of Jacob and Sally Whitney of MA. Unfortunately, though I found Alonzo J. living at home in the 1850 census, an older brother Charles was not in the household. The same household in 1840 did have an older son living with them, but - of course - no name.

Thanks for telling me your hunch - I'll go look at James and Emma of Fitchburg and see what I can turn up. :)

-Stacy

PS - Is there any way to change the title of a document? I put in one of the families without the "Family:" as the first thing in the title. (Oops - in looking up the document in my lineage, I see you've already changed it. However, could I have changed it somehow, or is that an admin thing? Thanks.)

== Eleanore Dilello's page ==
Whew!! i thought I would never find you.. i deleted the page because i dont know what i am doing...ha ha ha

I removed the page because it was doing something funny with one of the lines...the one that says It was Pierce's Whitney book..

anyway...if you know what happened let me know i am going to post it again...

Eleanore

== Estate Info - Isaac Whitney ==
The Estate info on Isaac Whitney came from the original WRG site.

I have used the 'Move to page' option when I find one of the pages I set up before the new standards or find one I made a mistake on that already has data. However in hopes that you or Robert can delete the bad ones at some point (and not liking redirect), I've tried to go in and fix the parents and any children's pages to point to corrected page directly. Since I'm not sure how to make sure no one is linked to old page via the user pages lineage or elsewhere, I've not tried to actually delete the old page.

- [[User_talk:Andaleen|Andaleen]] 08:30, 13 February 2006 (PST)

== Erroneous User Name ==

Tim: I see that BenHWhittney (two "t"s) has registered. His name is really Ben H. Whitney, and on his User page, he seems to think his user name is BenHWhitney (only one "t"). Can you deal with this issue with him?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 10:57, 14 February 2006 (CST)

== Databases ==

Links look good, however they were a little confusing at first. The Moses link looked like what I was used to, however when I click on the others, they appeared in a different format than the one I choose for my profile (at least I think that is the difference). The only other thing I might change is the name Links when used for this purpose. Wiki implies links are editable, and these are not - might change to Read-only Links or Un-editable Links, so it is clear before you click on these that you are entering a workspace that does not conform to the stated goals of the Wiki environment. These spaces are owned by single, special individuals.

So does this mean you've figured out how to automatically load the Family pages from your gedcom and don't need me to continue copying from the WRG site into Wiki, or do you want me to start including these links on the pages as I convert them? I have three more children and all their children of Benjamin<sup>2</sup> to do and then I'm done with that path unless you want me to backtrack and add these links before moving on to another line. I think I understand how you set them up and could follow same format on pages I'm converting if that is what you want me to do.

- [[User_talk:Andaleen|Andaleen]] 08:37, 14 February 2006 (PST)

== Phoenix Format ==

Tim: In answer to your questions, it couldn't be simple!
* NO PAGES contain the title and author of the work. I put that above the navigation links and the border of the page for that reason. This is in analogy to the imported Pierce pages. The exact format of the author and title part is not important, so suit yourself on that. I also think we need to add breadcrumbs above the title and author, at the top of each page.
* PAGES iii, v, and vii have simple borders and no headings.
* PAGES iv and vi have no borders.
* PAGE viii is blank
* PAGE ix has nothing in the center, just the page number on the right.
* EVEN PAGES x to xx have the page number on the left and "The Whitneys" in the center.
* ODD PAGES xi to xxi have the page number on the right and "Of England." in the center.
* PAGE xxii has the page number on the left and "The Whitneys of England." in the center.
* PAGE 1 has blanks in the heading, but it is still there.
* EVEN NUMBERED PAGES 2 to 2474 contain "Eighth Generation." or the analogue in the center and the page number on the left.
* ODD NUMBERED PAGES 3 to 2475 contain "Whitney Family." in the center of the heading and the page number on the right. (I just fixed the example in the [[WRG:Sandbox|WRG sandbox]] which had the page number on the wrong side for page 1551.)
* PAGE 2476 is blank.
* The Index of Places (pages 2477 to 2526), the Index of Surnames (pages 2527 to 2737), and the Errata (pages 2738 to 2740) have a different format altogether. I'll try to generate example pages for each. We currently only have transcribed a small portion of the Index of Surnames, and none of the rest.
* CHART PAGES, such as p0028a.txt, have a simple border around the whole page and no heading. This one is bound between pages 28 and 29, and the back of the page is blank. Others are analogous. They are all sideways, since they are wider than they are tall, except for pxxiii.txt, which is vertical. A fixed-width font is mandatory for them, because of the way I have used ASCII characters to draw the lines. Possibly a different way could be devised to draw these charts not involving this device, but I haven't really tried to find a way to do that. My version of TMG has an add-on, something called Visual Chart Form, which can draw such charts, but whether they could be somehow incorporated into web pages, I just don't know.

Another issue: since the transcription is not finished, we need to create templates into which to fit the text of newly scanned and OCRed pages, even, odd, and index.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 10:54, 15 February 2006 (CST)

== Databases, Continued ==

I very much like the links and references added to the pages like [[Family:Whitney, Ezra (1731-a1800)|Ezra Whitney]] you've been working on. I did notice however the one time I tried to use references that even though I incremented the reference number thinking that is what tied it to its corresponding note, it did not seem to matter what number I put in, the display incremented by one in order of appearance (ie: I input ref 2{{ref|2}}, then ref 1{{ref|1}}, then ref 2 again{{ref|2}} because I wanted to use the same reference call out for two sources), however the display is 1, 2, and 3. So I quit trying to do anything except setup at least one or two refs as template samples on the pages I'm converting for others to use or to come back to. I was also not always sure why on the original site there seemed to be the same information seemingly repeated 2 or more times unless that was the old site's way of indicating multiple sources without including source details. For the most part I'm just transferring what is on original site as is and assuming you, Robert, others, or myself can come back and add references and notes and cleanup later.

The skin I chose to use in my preferences is 'Cologne Blue'. I think the pages I clicked on when I was looking around shifted me to 'MonoBook'. I see 'Cologne Blue' when I view Moses and John from Archives, but when I click on other of John's children or on Moses children, I get the other skin (note: I did not click on all of them).

When I was trying to review skins, I notice on my screen 'Simple' skin looks really bad - the side bar navigation and the main body of information overlap one another like a double image making both unreadable in the area where the side bar info resides. Also noticed on my layout one or two of the other skins which had the WRG logo in the upper left corner overlapped information in the main section and I could not read headers. Let me know if I need to take screen shots and try to email to you separately.

As for the links - what I was trying to convey was perhaps two sets of links, one set taking you to other editable links and the other clearly identifying that the links are for informational use only and not editable except by owner once there. It's not that big a deal. Like you I think if Wiki is used correctly, those gedcom links become less meaningful, or become almost mirror copies of the editable page that calls them - assuming people like you and me consolidate and cross reference conflicting information from each site into Wiki page, and assuming that the authors of each restricted site, reviews information and performs similar action on their own pages. I did notice that you added information to the bottom of the pages identifying owners and asking people to contact them if they think a change is needed, so that probably suffices. It's still may be confusing the first few times a person goes to those links, but will probably clear itself up the first time they try to edit and can't - they will look more closely at the message. I just thought it would be helpful to tell them in some manner before they clicked on link not to expect to edit info when they got there.

Thanks
- [[User_talk:Andaleen|Andaleen]] 09:00, 15 February 2006 (PST)

== Phoenix Index Format ==

Tim: I think I've got a sample index page. See the [[WRG:Sandbox|WRG sandbox]] for the code.

Question: Why does <nowiki><font size="-1"></nowiki> seem not work on wiki pages?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 12:57, 15 February 2006 (CST)

== Phoenix Format, Continued ==

Tim:

In general, that is a creditable effort! Comments:

1. I have changed the PhoenixHeading template somewhat.

2. Any words in the center portion of the header should be italicized. In this case, it is "Whitney Family."

3. While your templates work fine for this page, which begins with an "entry", they won't necessarily do the right thing for pages which begin with either a continuation of an entry, or with a new family, or with a new generation. Those which begin with a continuation of an entry will have nothing in the first and last column, at least in theory, and text in the middle. Those which begin with a new family will not have the separating horizontal rule above the names of the parents. Those which begin with a new generation have about an inch of white space, followed by "FOURTH GENERATION." (or the analogue) in larger capitals, centered, followed by a new family beginning without the horizontal rule.

That's all for now.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 10:12, 16 February 2006 (CST)

== Phoenix Format, Continued ==

Tim:

Yes, the center part of the heading is ALWAYS in italics.

I see that passing no parameters to the entry template would work for the continuation situation.

We need a template for beginning a family without a horizontal rule.
In addition we need either a template with a rule included, or a separate template with just the rule. Either of these approaches should work.

I tweaked the new generation template.

I also created an example of the Errata pages, of which there are only three. Since they have not yet been transcribed, it makes no sense to write a specialized bunch of code just for those three pages. Instead, I'll just do a custom coding job on them.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 13:22, 16 February 2006 (CST)

== Cousins Marry - How/Where to report children ==

I just came across my first set of double cousins which made issue I'm discussing here stand out to me, although issue will exist anytime a cousin marries another cousin whether it be 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. See [[Family:Watkins, Gilbert N. (s1765-1822)|Gilbert N. Watkins]] and [[Family:Watkins, Sarah (c1766-?)|Sarah Watkins]]. Gilbert N. and Sarah Watkins mothers were sisters, Sarah and Esther Whitney, while their fathers were brothers, Nathan and James Watkins. I did not like the idea of maintaining data on children in two different pages, so I deleted the children from Sarah's page and just set up link back to Gilbert's. Take a look and let me know how you want to handle Family Group when cousins marry cousins. Whose page do we want to post children to (Father or Mother or Both)?

- [[User_talk:Andaleen|Andaleen]] 16 Feb 2006 8:41 pm PST

== Cousins Marry (part 2) ==

What you suggested made sense until I came to my next set of cousins. [[Family:Watkins, Patty (c1778-1849)|Patty Watkins]], daughter of [[Family:Whitney, Esther (1742-?)|Esther Whitney]] married her cousin [[Family:Whitney, Fisher (1775-1805)|Fisher Whitney]]. I started to direct her to Fisher's page when I suddenly realized, she had a second marriage with children, and if I link her to Fisher with no page of her own, I have no home for second family.

- [[User talk:Andaleen|Andaleen]] 16 February 2006 9:42pm PST

== Extracts ==

Tim:

All the Extracts are finished, as far as I can tell, except for Phoenix and the Pierce indexes! Whew!!

On to new projects. Next I intend to finish the Biographies, then start on the City Directories.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 15:02, 20 February 2006 (CST)

== "Add a new page" Problem ==

Tim: On the WRG:Start_a_new_page page, the labels above the two windows and the action of the two buttons below are mismatched. The button under the Simple Version window gives you the Complete Version template, and vice versa. Either the labels should be switched, or the buttons should.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 18:40, 25 February 2006 (CST)

== Links in Transcriptions/Extracts ==

Tim:

It occurred to me that putting links in ALL our transcriptions or extracts from names pointing to family group records may or may not be a good idea. As a case in point, consider the Pierce transcription. We already have links from some names to the Errors page, so there is a conflict there.

I don't have a solution. I am just pointing out that there may be a problem.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 07:07, 28 February 2006 (CST)

== Rollbacks ==

Tim:

Thanks for pointing out that "feature" of rollbacks.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 10:33, 28 February 2006 (CST)

== Pierce Edit ==

Tim:

I think we should find the source of these dates. If it is a family bible, for example, it should be posted under bibles. If it is from the vital records of Dummerston, it should be posted under vital records.

It makes you want to "protect" these pages.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 15:22, 1 March 2006 (CST)

== Links ==

Tim:

Did you see [[Template_talk:Family Group Record Format#Links|my post on this]]? Probably I put it in the wrong place. Where would be a better place so that all those creating new family group record pages would see it?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 09:00, 2 March 2006 (CST)

== Conflict in Links in Pierce ==

Tim:

As I mentioned in an earlier post, sometimes there is a link in the Pierce transcription from a name to the errors page. If we want to link from the name to that person's family group record instead, we have a conflict. In such cases, we could add something like "[ERROR!]" after the name, and make the link to the error page from that word. I think the mechanism is a reasonable solution, but would like your input as to just what to add.

Could it be as simple as just using the traffic danger sign graphic? If so, how do you create a link using a graphic instead of text? Does <nowiki>[[Archive:Errors in Pierce#67-1|[[Image:danger.jpg]]]]</nowiki> or some similar variant of that actually work?

Thoughts, please!

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 10:15, 2 March 2006 (CST)

== Error Links ==

Your solution to the image=link problem is good, but it is very much not obvious that the graphic '''IS''' a link. In HTML, a graphic which is a link gets surrounded by a blue border, just like text gets a blue underline. That way, one can easily recognize that this image is not just an image, but also a link. Your solution lacks this feature. I, for one, would never think of clicking on the danger graphic.

I rather suppose that the above is not fixable, so I now prefer the idea of using some text for the error link. Perhaps the word shouldn't be "error", but "correction" instead.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 12:20, 2 March 2006 (CST)

== Printable Version ==

Tim:

Have you looked at the Printable Version of any of the pages using the <nowiki>{{ref|#}}</nowiki> construct? Yike!!

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 18:26, 2 March 2006 (CST)

== Why I Don't Need a Template for "Under Construction" ==

Tim:

I understand how to make and use templates. I don't need one in this situation because of how I am creating these new pages:
# Find a link to the person's page from the parent's page.
# Click on it, opening a blank edit window.
# Go to my word processor, where I have my own custom copy of the family group template.
# Copy the whole file.
# Go back to the blank edit window, and paste.
# Edit the file until satisfied.
# Delete the top two lines.
# Save.
# Edit "Robert's Tasks" to record a task as "DONE".
You see that it doesn't matter whether the "Under Construction" code appears on the top line of my file or whether your new Uc template does. I'm not retyping that line over and over. I actually thought about using one of the colored divboxes rather than what I did, and I may still do so.

One advantage of doing it this way, rather than using the "Add a new page" link in the navigation box, is that I can't misspell the name of the file I'm adding in the name box. You may have noticed that I have deleted several duplicative files, some of which were inadvertently generated that way.

My custom template is somewhat different from the one at the web site. In particular, it has twelve children instead of four, and more reference/note constructs. I find it easier to delete extra children than to add more. I may also create a separate one for female heads, with pronouns of the opposite gender and daughter/son swapped, but haven't done that yet.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 12:03, 16 March 2006 (CST)

== Backups ==

Tim:

Since our method of working has changed with the new website, I realized that I will no longer have a mirror of those files on my home computer. This means that the burden falls on you to do a careful job of backing up those files regularly, also keeping the backups safe (preferably at a different geographic location). I assume you are already doing this, but I would like you to describe to me your efforts in this area.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 06:15, 21 March 2006 (CST)

== Printable Version ==

Tim:

You wrote
:"Robert: This has been solved. You may need to force a reload of the page to see the change."

I'm still seeing the problem. Look again.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 06:32, 21 March 2006 (CST)

== Bull / Baull ==

Robert:

I seem to remember something about a Bull / Baull woman in the information that Paul reed and I were corresponding about. Could you check the file that I sent to you and see what the name of the woman was that ran the inn that the Christopher Marlowe was killed in?

Thank you!

- [[User:Tdoyle|Tim Doyle]] | [[User talk:Tdoyle|Talk to me]] 11:52, 21 March 2006 (CST)

== Eleanor (Whitney) Bull ==

Tim:

I've sent you information on her by e-mail.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 12:32, 21 March 2006 (CST)

== St. Mary Aldermary ==

Tim:

I love what you've done with that page! Kudos!!

I also see that Smith and Sanborn made an error in calling the second Mary "Margaret." That settles that!

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 16:17, 27 March 2006 (CST)

== Printable Version ==

Tim:

I use Mozilla Firefox v1.0.7. For example on [[Family:Whitney, Benjamin (1643-1723)|Benjamin<sup>2</sup> Whitney]]'s page, in the place where <nowiki>{{ref|1}}</nowiki> is found in the source, I see <nowiki>"[1] (http://wiki.whitneygen.org/wrg/index.php/Family:Whitney%2C_Benjamin_%281643-1723%29#endnote_1)" </nowiki>(without the quotation marks, all as a superscript) which is, of course, the web address of the place to which the reference points, namely the first note construct, enclosed in parentheses. It is the same after every use of the reference construct. I expected to see only "[1]" (without the quotation marks, as a superscript).

Everything else seems acceptable for a printable version.

If you can't eliminate this artifact, I would consider the printable version option to be useless.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 19:15, 27 March 2006 (CST)

== My Wiki Expectations ==

Tim:

I'm glad you asked this question now, since I have seen many of the advantages of this structure. I also see a few disadvantages. On balance, this is a BIG WIN.

*Ad: Everyone can add information.
*Dis: There is a learning curve on how to do that, and it's more than many users will choose to learn.
*Dis: The wiki syntax is quite different from HTML, so even web people have the learning curve (although not as steep).
*Dis: Someone has to review each change to check the syntax, maintain the correct style, and enforce proper documentation.

*Ad: You are a wiki guru, and can be consulted in case of questions.
*Dis: You are the sole wiki guru, as well as webmaster, so there is a huge problem with single-point failure: if you are killed by a meteorite, a tornado, or a snakebite, the web site is in deep trouble. With the old web site, I had a mirror, so could bring up the website in my own web space if necessary, or could arrange for a new host without loss of any data.

*Ad: Cross-linking between sources and family groups is relatively easy.
*Dis: Creating family groups becomes a bottleneck. Andaleen is doing yeoman service here!
*Dis: Documenting the family groups becomes a second bottleneck. I've been working hard on the first three generations, and am almost done. I'm not sure I want to continue into the fourth.
*Dis: Cross-linking is a third bottleneck. This involves MANY edits of our source material, each minor. I've fallen behind with this on the first three generations, I know.

*Ad: Templates are good!
*Dis: They are near the end of the learning curve, so only you and I have any chance of writing new ones right now (and I'm not too sure about me!).

*Ad: The search engine exists, and works well for simple searches.
*Dis: I am constantly missing a strong search engine. For some searches, I even go back to the old website and use Google, a strategy I devised because the ''old'' search engine was also rather weak. This will become less and less possible as the new web site mutates, and diverges from the old one.

Features I really like: What Links Here, hiding e-mail addresses, ease of uploading images. I like the idea of a discussion page attached to every page, but I haven't found an effective way to use them yet.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 20:48, 27 March 2006 (CST)

== Isleworth Parish Register ==

Tim:

I'm quite sure you mean March 25th (Lady Day) and not 21st for the first day of the year. See, for example, [http://www.monticello.org/reports/life/old_style.html this page].

I have made what I think are the appropriate changes to the web page. Since the Gregorian calendar did not exist until 1582, the
Julian calendar was the only one in use, so writing 1575/6 is anachronistic, and 1575[/6] is probably also improper, so I am leaving it as 1575. For dates after 1582 and before 1752, I have used 1623[/4], for example.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 09:12, 28 March 2006 (CST)

== Importing Status ==

Tim:

I have finished sourcing and cleaning up the first three generations of descendants of John<sup>1</sup> Whitney, and my line to the fifth generation (where the names change to Flagg/Hardy and Billing/Hayward).
I also have finished converting the Combined Index to Massachusetts Vital Records.

There are some small, miscellaneous tasks left. Whenever I find a link in the Archives which is red, I will try to create a page to turn that link blue.

We are running out of big tasks. The next one, in my opinion, should be the Phoenix import. What can I do to help expedite that?

Another big task which needs a policy decision is what we should do with the photos posted to the old web site. I'd be happy to upload the images, name them, and supply some text, but how will they be indexed?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 15:45, 1 April 2006 (CST)

== Census Index Problem ==

Tim:

Have you seen [[Archive:1840 Census Index, New York|this]]?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 13:50, 2 April 2006 (EDT)

== Unattached Families ==

Tim:

What do you think we should do with unattached family groups? In addition to creating a Family Group Record for the family, if we don't know the Whitney parents, should we have some special way to identify such? Would a category be the best way, or a page with links to all of them? How about conjectured identifications?

So many questions, so few answers!

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 14:22, 3 April 2006 (EDT)

== It Finally Happened! ==

Tim:

I have two Mary Whitney family groups, both born in 1744 and last record found in 1788. One married Samuel Whitmore of Gorham, ME, the other Elijah Gibbs and Edward Scott of Westminster and Fitchburg, MA. They would both be listed as Family:Whitney, Mary (1744-a1788). How should we differentiate between them so as to have a unique name for each family group?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 08:26, 8 April 2006 (EDT)

== Sources in Footnotes ==

Tim:

Often we have several sources for an event. For example, we have multiple sources for John<sup>1</sup> Whitney's second marriage to Judah (-----) Clements. Of course we cite ''Watertown Records'', which is the best one. What other sources, if any, should we cite? All are probably eventually derived from that one. Putting links from all the sources back to John's page makes sense, but I don't think we need links from his page to all those sources. Thoughts?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 10:17, 9 April 2006 (EDT)

== Duplicate Birth and Death Years ==

Tim:

I think we can use the day and month of the birth date, say (31 Mar 1744-a1788) versus (19 Sep 1744-a1788). That will work for this case, and probably for any case we are likely to encounter. Of course, there is no guarantee that it'll work ALWAYS ...

- [[User:Rlward|Robert L. Ward]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 13:19, 11 April 2006 (EDT)

== Reciprocal Links ==

Tim:

I agree that reciprocal links are unnecessary, especially because of the "What Links Here" feature (which I ''really'' like!).

- [[User:Rlward|Robert L. Ward]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 13:23, 11 April 2006 (EDT)

== Renaming Files ==

Tim:

Renaming a file, as I understand it, involves using the Redirect feature, which you have warned me has problems. My method is to copy the file to one with the new name, then changing all the links to it to use the new name, and finally to delete the old file. I understand that the history is lost at that point, so that has a problem, too. Is there something I have missed, or misunderstood?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert L. Ward]] | [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 08:42, 12 April 2006 (EDT)

== Importing Photos ==

Tim:

It seems to me that somehow we should keep the original photos, no matter how large, somewhere. Perhaps the versions we display could be smaller and cropped more neatly, with a link in case someone wants the original picture in all its high-resolution glory.

I have PhotoShop 5.0 Limited Edition, with which I can create the new versions. What formats (.jpg, .gif, .bmp, ...), file sizes (in kB), and picture dimensions (in inches) would you recommend?

I would suggest having the original picture in one file, and the more manageable version in a second file. Then we could have a page for the picture, showing the modified picture, accompanying text, and a link to the original picture (with a warning about the size). Finally, we could have an index page, with links to each of the last-mentioned pages above, and a VERY short description as the link. Of course, we have the issue of names for the three files . . . . (I never liked WRG00031.jpg and its analogues, anyway, although it had the advantage of simplicity.)

Thoughts?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert L. Ward]] | [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 10:42, 12 April 2006 (EDT)

== Photo Importing Progress ==

I'm doing this now. I encountered an anomaly at WRG00049, which is alleged to be a death certificate, but is actually an obituary of someone else. Similarly, WRG00051 is mismatched with it's text. Also, the .jpg file for WRG00054 is missing. Should we just change the accompanying text, or should we contact the owner?

I didn't have a good way to name the photos, so, at least for the time being, I'm keeping the numbering scheme. We can change later if we decide on a different plan.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert L. Ward]] | [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 14:58, 21 April 2006 (EDT)

==Real User Names==

Is there a way to get a list of the real names of all the users and their corresponding usernames? If we want to change the e-mail links on the lineage pages to username links, I think we need that capability.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert L. Ward]] | [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 10:24, 23 April 2006 (EDT)

==Bug in "What links here"?==

When I go to this page [[Image:Cfwhitneygsons.jpg|center|200px]] and click on "What links here", it tells me that no page links to that image. On the other hand [[Family:Whitney, Charles Field (1831-a1900)]] does link there. What gives?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert L. Ward]] | [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 10:34, 1 May 2006 (EDT)

==Listings of Pages==

You've added an excellent feature. Thanks for thinking of it!

- [[User:Rlward|Robert L. Ward]] | [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 13:24, 3 May 2006 (EDT)

==Photos==

I finished migrating the Photos part of the archives to this web site. I've also created a facility for adding a photo to the archives. See [[Archive:Add Photo]]. I'm very unsure that I did the coding for the text box and button correctly, so please check it out for me. Any revisions or improvements would be gladly accepted!

- [[User:Rlward|Robert L. Ward]] | [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 13:24, 3 May 2006 (EDT)

==Listing of Pages==

Your listing is nice, but isn't more or less the same functionality available by going to the [[:Category:Vermont]] page?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert L. Ward]] | [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 14:28, 3 May 2006 (EDT)

==Listing of Pages==

The new Vermont page is nice, but you have lost the Subcategory functionality in replacing the old one with it.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert L. Ward]] | [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 14:40, 3 May 2006 (EDT)

==Subcategories==

I saw them after you added them today.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert L. Ward]] | [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 14:48, 3 May 2006 (EDT)

==Error in Pierce==

The error has already been linked from the erroneous lineages of the brothers to [[Archive:The Descendants of John Whitney, Errors#213-1]] and [[Archive:The Descendants of John Whitney, Errors#213-2]]. I have just added links from those places to the [[Archive:Who were Calvin and Haynes Whitney]] page for the fuller discussion.

Any errors found in Pierce should be linked from a [NOTE] insertion at the place of the error, to [[Archive:The Descendants of John Whitney, Errors#PAGE-ORDINAL]]. On that page should be an explanation of what the facts are that contradict Pierce, plus a link back to the person in the text whose treatment contains the error.

I stopped trying to find ''all'' errors in the middle of page 129 of Pierce, where the family groups of the fifth generation fathers end. Whatever other errors are there are ones concerning the sixth generation sons carried over to their own sketches, such as this one, or others discovered more or less by accident.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert L. Ward]] | [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 20:49, 6 May 2006 (EDT)

==Census Index Pages==

I see that you have been making excellent progress on importing the census index pages. That's great! I noticed that on [[WRG:Website Conversion Project]] you have marked 1900-1930 as DONE, yet on [[Archive:Census Records]] there are no links to any of these except Puerto Rico in 1920. Presumably you meant to put IN PROGRESS instead of DONE.

Are you just bringing the existing index pages over from the old web site, or are you using Ancestry's indexes, too, and merging the two?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert L. Ward]] | [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 09:47, 8 May 2006 (EDT)

==Nested Templates?==

Can I call a template by passing its call in through an argument of another template? I was trying to make a two-column footnote template, and pass the contents of the two columns. The contents themselves contained a template for a footnote span tag, number, and text. This failed, probably because I haven't much of an idea what I'm doing. See [[Phoenix Test]] for what I was trying to achieve, but done without templates.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert L. Ward]] | [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 18:48, 11 June 2006 (EDT)

Many thanks for the interest. I managed to locate the info you mentioned. Many thanks

==Printed Version==

Your suggestion of upgrading to Firefox 1.5.0.4 seems to have worked. Of course, I really don't know why, but who cares?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert L. Ward]] | [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 14:18, 18 June 2006 (EDT)

== My Photograph ==

Tim:

I have many much more pressing matters to deal with than posting my photograph on my User page.

By the way, I see that you have changed the tab label from "edit" to "'''edit this page'''". This is an improvement, in my view.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 13:37, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

== Sample Page from Pierce ==

Tim:

A creditable effort! I noticed three things immediately:

# The name of the page should be "Family:Whitney, James Scolly (1811-1878)"
# The names of the page links for the lineage should all begin with "Family:Whitney, ...", and likewise for the children.
# Titles shouldn't be part of the page names. The person wasn't born with them, they may change over time (military promotions, being named a deacon of a church, being knighted, etc.), and one man may hold more than one at the same time (Deacon and Captain, for example).

It's hard to believe that the entire five-page narrative is a single paragraph!!

By the way, the categories are well done, but don't conform to the model I have been using. I use <nowiki>[[Category:Massachusetts]] + [[Category:Norfolk County, Massachusetts]] + [[Category:Brookline, Norfolk County, Massachusetts]], rather than [[Category:Brookline, Massachusetts]]</nowiki>. Of course this will be really hard to generate automagically, since the county is not included in Pierce's text. When I generated the Index of Places for Pierce, I had to find out the counties for each town in the index, which I did, with just a handful of exceptions (places I couldn't find in gazetteers and searches). Perhaps you could use that index to help with this situation.

I also see that <nowiki>[[Category:St., New York]]</nowiki> appears. Probably it comes from "37th St., New York" mentioned in the text. Probably we'll have to replace things like that with <nowiki>[[New York, New York County, New York]]</nowiki>, etc., by hand.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 21:54, 26 June 2006 (CDT)

== Sample Page from Pierce (cont.) ==

Tim:

You said, "Titles will be a problem as that's how Pierce has them. I'll have to see if I can pick them out one by one." Here's the main criterion: if the first word of the subject's name ends in a period, it's a title. I don't think there are any names like S. Whitney Phoenix or Sir Robert Whitney as subjects.

Also, "Also, what county should I add - the county at the time of the event, or the current-day county?" That's a policy issue which I don't believe has a standard solution. I have used the current-day county, as it makes finding a place easier with current maps, and the records are likely to be in the current county seat. It also avoids issues such as towns which existed in areas before there was a county there. It also avoid using "Massachusetts Bay Colony" and "Plymouth Colony" instead of the state of Massachusetts, and the fact that parts of current Vermont were at one time claimed by Massachusetts, New Hampshire, and New York, all at the same time.

Further comments:

"5. SubjectName can sometimes be a link to an error page." I have been changing these links, adding the word "[NOTE]" after the name and making that the link. I have finished the first part of the book (through p. 129), which has the most of these, but there are still many left to be done. I'll get started right away on finishing that job.

"8. Add Childrens' surnames." The surname is ALWAYS Whitney.

I've just received your e-mail and will be checking out the data. Perhaps I'll have more comments later.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 08:57, 27 June 2006 (CDT)

== Another Pierce Issue ==

Tim:

Check out the bottom of page 176. There is an example where the children are arranged in TWO columns instead of one. This occurs occasionally elsewhere. I have no idea how you should deal with this. Possibly it's a hand-edit situation.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 09:42, 27 June 2006 (CDT)

== Re: Pierce ==

Tim:

You wrote: "I dealt with ... improper formatting; improper spelling (Witney, Whtney) ...." If you report these to me, I'll make the changes on the wiki pages.

You also wrote: "You said 'I have been changing these links, adding the word "[NOTE]" ... I'll get started right away on finishing that job.'" I'm now up through page 206, and will continue as time permits. You continued with, "I guess I should mention that I am using the files originally imported to the wiki, not the current versions." Glad you mentioned that. I didn't understand that.

You went on, "I had envisioned needing to manually go through the Error page so that adjustments could be made to these family pages (rather than just linking to an explanation). Thoughts?" Now that's something I could usefully do. I'll take that on.

ALBERT APPLETON (WHITNEY) FAY and other name-change cases were something I had not seen in Pierce heretofore. Always a chance to learn something new!

"Would you like a fresh one so you're not reporting things that have already been fixed?" Yes, that would be good, thanks.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 11:46, 27 June 2006 (CDT)

== Pierce Notes ==

Tim:

# The dates for page names and links are not working right. John<sup>1</sup> Whitney isn't (1659-1673), Joshua<sup>2</sup> Whitney isn't (1635-1666), and Cornelius<sup>3</sup> Whitney isn't (1715-1715).
# Footnotes in the original are handled badly.
# When a child's name is a link to the error file, this is handled badly.
# De-hyphenation reuniting a word split between two lines is still not working well.

More later.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 17:21, 27 June 2006 (CDT)

== More Pierce ==

Tim:

How about just deleting footnotes entirely?

Child's name is a link:
# See Alice, alleged daughter of Joshua<sup>2</sup> Whitney on his page. There is a problem with bolding and the link being intertwined. (Of course, the footnote confuses the matter, but I don't think it caused the problem.)
# See Moses<sup>3</sup> Whitney, son John<sup>4</sup>.

De-hyphenation:
# See the same Alice, under her children, Bath- sheba.
# Under Benjamin<sup>3</sup> Whitney (1660-1736) [John<sup>2</sup>, John<sup>1</sup>], his daughter Ruth, Ken- Dall.
I noticed that each of these were inside a link text.

New problems:
# See Joseph<sup>3</sup> Whitney (1651-1702) [John<sup>2</sup>, John<sup>1</sup>], end of children. There two children are somehow conflated.
# Same Ruth<sup>4</sup> Whitney as above, her narrative seems to be messed up somehow.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 21:37, 27 June 2006 (CDT)

== Pre- or Post-Import? ==

Tim:

If the only issues we find are related to error-links, then we can fix them manually. There are only a few links from child-number Roman numerals, all having to do with missing children. (I couldn't think of where else to put the link for that kind of problem.)

By the way, in the wiki version of the transcription, I have now finished making all the error-links be from the string "[NOTE]" inserted in an appropriate place.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 08:44, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

== Children of Daughters ==

Tim:

That's perfect! Excellent!

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 09:39, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

== Abbreviations ==

Tim:

Your list of geographic abbreviations did include all the states except Alaska, which did not appear abbreviated in our transcription on the old web site. Please add to it the following, which I found there:
'D/. C/.' => 'District of Columbia',
'D/.C/.' => 'District of Columbia',
'Penn/.' => 'Pennsylvania',
'L/. I/.' => 'Long Island',
'L/.I/.' => 'Long Island',
'Can/.' => 'Canada',
'Ca/.' => 'Canada',
'N/. S/.' => 'Nova Scotia',
'N/.S/.' => 'Nova Scotia',
'Que/.' => 'Quebec',
'Mex/.' => 'Mexico',
'S/. A/.' => 'South America', [but not S.A.] [but U. S. A. = United States Army !!!]
'W/. I/.' => 'West Indies', [but not W.I.]
There may be more. This is all I could think of and could find. I also found that some transcriber(s) chose to use postal abbreviations (grrrr!):
'CT' => 'Connecticut',
'IA' => 'Iowa',
'IL' => 'Illinois',
'IN' => 'Indiana',
'MA' => 'Massachusetts',
'ME' => 'Maine',
'MI' => 'Michigan',
'MO' => 'Missouri',
'NC' => 'North Carolina',
'NJ' => 'New Jersey',
'NY' => 'New York',
'OH' => 'Ohio',
'PA' => 'Pennsylvania',
'RI' => 'Rhode Island',
'VT' => 'Vermont',
'WA' => 'Washington',
'WI' => 'Wisconsin',
I hope this helps.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 07:06, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

== Page Names ==

Tim:

The list at Sandbox4 is discouraging. Some is due to Old Style/New Style dates. Some is due to us having more information about birth and death dates that Pierce did, including using "after", "before", "circa", and "say" dates. There's quite a lot of work to do to fix all of those!

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 07:12, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

== Two More Changes ==

Tim:

I made two further changes to Sandbox4. Heaven only knows how you'll deal with them! Look for the word "conglomeration" to find them.

Otherwise, I suppose we're ready to go!

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 20:59, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

== Some Dates Not Right ==

Tim:

I see that some dates are converted to 30 Aug 1802 and others are left as Aug 30, 1802. I don't know why that happens, or whether or not you want to correct that.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 21:36, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

== 130 Years Old! ==

Tim:

We'll have to move [[Family:Whitney, Phinehas (1740-1870)]] to [[Family:Whitney, Phinehas (1740-1812)]]. It's interesting to see why that was generated!

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 21:46, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

== Andaleen ==

Tim:

I haven't told her, and I don't think you have either. Probably she hasn't a clue. I think you should tell her, since it was your idea and mostly your work, so you have bragging rights!

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 22:00, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

== Duplicate Names ==

Tim:

We have a problem with duplicate page names. See [[Family:Whitney, William (?-?)]] for example.
Two such pages were generated, and one overwrote the other.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 22:06, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

== Sewing Together Gens 5 and 6 ==

Tim:

I began the process, working alphabetically using the Family Groups list.

I found the first problem at [[Family:Whitney, Abiezer Holbrook (1794-1865)]], whose father [[Family:Whitney, Nathan (1768-1849)]] was given the generation number 1, and no further lineage. AHW was given generation number 2, and his children 3. Now Nathan has a perfectly good page, with correct lineage, and on that page, he has generation number 5. I fixed this particular instance, but surely there are more of the same kind. Here's one: [[Family:Whitney, Abram Hinckley (1817-1851)]].

The second problem was at [[Family:Whitney, Abner (1807-1888)]], where the page actually contains the information for Zachariah Leach Whitney. Both appear on Pierce p. 412. Abner's is the first family on the page, and Zachariah's is the second. That one I didn't fix.

I've finished given names A through C. Will continue later.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 06:51, 30 June 2006 (CDT)

== Family Groups ==

Tim:

Great, well done, and about time. I was starting to worry that it was never going to get done if it depended on me doing 2-10 per week which is about all I've been able to do recently do to work load and some family obligations. I'm on vacation till week of July 9th and will review more then.

== Mass Edits ==

Tim:

Prime candidates for mass edits using the bot would be the following sections of [[Pierce Conversion Project]]:
* [[Pierce Conversion Project#Overwritten Family Data|Overwritten Family Data]]
* [[Pierce Conversion Project#Lineage Breaks|Lineage Breaks]]
* [[Pierce Conversion Project#Merged Pages|Merged Pages]]
As I progress through the sewing, if I find more, I'll put them in those sections.

Also, I notice that Andaleen has put the generation numbers in lineages outside the links. The bot should replace all instances of<nowiki>"]]<sup>1</sup>" with "<sup>1</sup>]]"</nowiki>, and likewise for generations 2, 3, and 4. Similarly, in her lists of children, she has used <nowiki>" Surname''']]<sup>X</sup>"</nowiki> instead of <nowiki>"<sup>X</sup> Surname''']]"</nowiki>, and <nowiki>" Surname'''<sup>X</sup>"</nowiki> instead of <nowiki>"<sup>X</sup> Surname'''"</nowiki>, where X is a generation number digit and Surname is a string of letters.

On all the Family: pages you could replace "the Whitney Research Group" and/or "The Whitney Research Group" with "the <nowiki>[[Whitney Research Group]]</nowiki>"

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 10:47, 4 July 2006 (CDT)

== Half-numbers ==

Tim:

I've discovered a new source of annoyance! There are many numbers in Pierce ending in " 1/2". I found 21 of these, of which only one is carried forward: 4814 1/2, Eprhaim Whitney. Of course he wasn't caught as the beginning of a family group, nor as a child in his father's family. The other 20 weren't caught as children in their father's family, either. I also found one number ending in " 1/4"! There are also Roman number child ordinals of the form "vii 1/2." I suppose that's to squeeze them in between vii and viii. I found 7 of those. I'll try to check them all out myself.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 10:10, 6 July 2006 (CDT)

== Comment Line ==

Tim:

Isn't the removal of the comment line a perfect use of the bot?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 10:19, 6 July 2006 (CDT)

== Location Categories ==

Tim:

While you are at it, keep a list of locations which weren't found in the geographic index but were in the import, along with the page numbers where found. We may have to deal with these on an individual basis. That way we can find two- or three-word locations, like Cottage City, Massachusetts, or Fond du Lac, Wisconsin.

In any case, don't start until we have all the issues from the Pierce Conversion Project done. We may be creating new pages or changing the names of pages during that process.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 10:35, 6 July 2006 (CDT)

== Census Indexes Versus Census Records ==

Tim:

I had an idea that the census indexes should be separate from the census record transcripts. This isn't so on the 1790 pages, for example, with the data included directly in the index. This is mandatory for 1850 and beyond, and for the sake of consistency, probably should be so for the earlier years, too. Then we can put anchors at each family group, and make links from the Family Group Records to the records themselves, rather than to the indexes, and from the indexes to the records themselves, as you've done with the 1880 census records. Also reverse links from the records and the indexes back to the Family Group Records can be made.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 11:05, 6 July 2006 (CDT)

== Location Categories, II ==

Tim:

Another approach would be:
* Scan the [[Special:Categories]] page, finding ones which seem to be syntactically ill-formed.
* Use the geographical index to find ones which may be multiple-word names, and ones which may be misspelled (such as Action, Massachusetts), that don't appear in the index.
* Invalid categories will have to be resolved individually and manually. A list of these categories could be put on the [[Pierce Conversion Project]] page to be dealt with by us.
* Deal with possible ambiguities in valid category names (such as Braintree versus New Braintree, Massachusetts), again using the geographical index. This may require a scan of the pages for such a category to determine which of the possibilities apply to each page.
* For each category with a missing county, use the geographical index to find the county name.
* Go to each of those category pages, and pick up the names of the pages using that category. That will give you a list of the edits that need to be done for that category.
* Collect and sort the lists of those edits, creating a master list sorted by page name.
* Invoke the bot to make all the edits.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 06:47, 7 July 2006 (CDT)

== Abbreviations and Poston ==

Tim:

Here are a few I noticed:
* unm. --> unmarried (may be end of sentence, too)
* No. --> North
* So. --> South
* Theo. --> Theodore
* U. South America --> United States Army (or U. S. A., as you prefer)

I did notice Mike Poston's work. Perhaps you could get him to improve the page for Jabez's father, Phineas, about whom he knows far more that Pierce knew. In the process, he might learn the syntax we use. Then he should add pages for the other descendants of Phineas.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 10:28, 7 July 2006 (CDT)

== Changes Complete? ==

Tim:

I've finished everything I know how to do on [[Pierce Conversion Project]]. Hooray! I also found all the family groups with two children on the same line, and fixed them, too. Is there anything else to do besides the minor issues and first five generations, or are we actually done?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 21:20, 7 July 2006 (CDT)

== Pierce Places ==

Tim:

Should I make any corrections [[Pierce Conversion Project - Place List|there]], or just tell you about them?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 09:45, 9 July 2006 (CDT)

== Canadian Counties? ==

Tim:

I can supply county names for places in Canada. Do we want to do that, or is the province name enough? I notice that some places have them, others don't.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 09:49, 9 July 2006 (CDT)

== John Whitney of Gorsington ==

Tim:

All you have written is stuff I already was aware of. I agree with everything you said with one exception. I haven't found a credible source for the existence of John Whitney, second son of Robert and Alice (Vaughan) Whitney of Whitney. It was in Carolyn Winch's database, without a source. That makes it somewhat suspect. Certainly there is nothing in Melville to support it. I put it on Robert's page anyway, with hopes that someone could turn up a source.

There are quite a few other places where I can't confirm what was in that database, too. Who knows where she got her information?! Possibly the LDS web site <gr-r-r-r-r>.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 13:58, 9 July 2006 (CDT)

== Royal Ancestry of Whitney of Clifford ==

Tim:

I found the following line:
# Edward III, King of England (1312-1377), m. Philippe of Hainault (1311-1369)
# John of Gaunt (1340-1399), m. Katherine Roet (c1350-1403)
# Henry Beaufort (c1375-1477), had mistress Alice FitzAlan (b1382-b1415)
# Joan Beaufort (c1403-c1453), m. Sir Edward Stradling (c1389-1453)
# Sir Henry Stradling (c1424-a1477), m. Elizabeth Herbert (c1427-?)
# Jane Stradling (?-?), m. Henry Parry (?-?)
# Miles Parry (?-?), m. Alice Milbourne (?-?)
# Sybil Parry (?-?), m. James Whitney of Clifford (s1520-1564)
# the later Whitneys of Clifford
Alice FitzAlan was herself a descendant of King Henry III. I haven't pursued this much further. It's possible there are other royal connections.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 15:15, 9 July 2006 (CDT)

== Royal Ancestry of Whitney of Clifford ==

Tim:

I found the following line:
# Edward III, King of England (1312-1377), m. Philippe of Hainault (1311-1369)
# John of Gaunt (1340-1399), m. Katherine Roet (c1350-1403)
# Henry Beaufort (c1375-1477), had mistress Alice FitzAlan (b1382-b1415)
# Joan Beaufort (c1403-c1453), m. Sir Edward Stradling (c1389-1453)
# Sir Henry Stradling (c1424-a1477), m. Elizabeth Herbert (c1427-?)
# Jane Stradling (?-?), m. Henry Parry (?-?)
# Miles Parry (?-?), m. Alice Milbourne (?-?)
# Sybil Parry (?-?), m. James Whitney of Clifford (s1520-1564)
# the later Whitneys of Clifford
Alice FitzAlan was herself a descendant of King Henry III. I haven't pursued this much further. It's possible there are other royal connections.

For the Parry family, see [http://homepage.ntlworld.com/im.griffiths/parryfamilyhistory/parryhome.htm Parry Family History].

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 15:16, 9 July 2006 (CDT)

== Texas Land Grants ==

Tim:
Thanks for all the good information. This is great I feel like a man who has been stumbling through a dark tunnel and now I can see a light, and it is not a train. I still havent been able to upload the documents yet. I havent been able to get back to the discussion group page where we fist made contact either. as I use this program more I will be better at it I hope. Thanks again for the info. and I have gotten Lois McCoin on line now too.
Tex ( Jess)

I am now tring to send 1 of 8 pages of Whitney Texas land grant documents. as I am on dialup it may take sometime. I hope it goes where it needs to go.

I sent 2 pics of the land grant front and back. I dont know if they went thru or not let me know if you get them

these jpg s are large so it may take some time

== land records ==

Tim

We finally got the land grant records on line. One is extremely large. Please let me know if I need to reupload it.

I have resent it in a smaller version.

the back page of the land grant has been resent

Thank you

I am not sure if you received my last message so here it is again. I have resent the back page of the land grant for Jason Whitney Republic of Texas Land grant

Hi Tim...I am not savy enough to format by myself. I know I need references. They are packed away in a box. I will get to them.
Sharon Barnett

== Family Group Record Creation ==

Tim:

I tried your form, filled it out completely, and clicked on "Submit". A completely blank white screen came up, and I think the page wasn't created. If you can do it but I can't, perhaps there is a permissions problem. I noticed that the URL of the page ends with "&create=Submit". I suspect you meant "&action=create" or "&action=Submit".

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 11:09, 16 July 2006 (CDT)

== Duplicate Numbers ==

Tim:

I see at the bottom of page 113 and the top of page 114, there are duplicate numbers 1490-1492. Fortunately, the first set on 113 are not carried forward, while two of the second set on 114 are, so there is no conflict in links, page names, nor anchors. I have removed the spurious links. Another 1895 boo-boo.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 12:31, 16 July 2006 (CDT)

== Creation ==

Tim:

I tried what you said, and it seems to have worked. Thanks!

Shouldn't the page name start with "Family:"??? When the birth and death dates are blank, shouldn't it supply (?-?) for the year range in the page name?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 13:47, 16 July 2006 (CDT)

== Created Page Names ==

Tim:

I understand about cleaning up the submissions, but I think getting the page name right will save a lot of moving of pages to new names. I'm thinking about using it for all the miscellaneous unknown people, where birth and death years are often unknown. I'd have to have to move them all!

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 14:00, 16 July 2006 (CDT)

== Still a Problem ==

Tim:
I see the ? defaults. Good work. But now I'm still getting a blank page when I enter a full family group. It may have to do with the length of the URL generated (it's '''really''' long!).

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 14:57, 16 July 2006 (CDT)

== Thanks ==

Tim..you gentlemen are amazing!. Thanks for the assistance.

Sharon

== Questions ==

Tim,

I have some questions. First why do I have to change my password so much this is the 3rd one so far? Second, how can I add family information and records to the site? Third, can I submit records Marriage, Census, etc. to the site? I would like to have them tied to my page if possible, as the land grant page is. and I have the back page of the Land grant on the log page now small enough to work I think.

Tex

== Isaac Amsden Whitney ==

Tim:

Isaac was son of Ami, not brother. I have made corrections to this lineage in two places, on the Image page and on the WRG Photo page. I'm afraid this was my fault, as I created those pages when I imported the Photos directory from the old web site, and I just copied what Denis Adams had posted there (which was wrong). I should have checked the lineages. There could be other problems of the same sort.

Should I (can I?) change the lineage on the old web site?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 09:07, 18 July 2006 (CDT)

I am sure it is something that I am doing wrong with the password. I must not be saving it or something.
I will watch it closer.

As for the family history, I have more pictures of my Great Great Grandmother Mary E. Whitney Who married Thomas Henry Freer I., their marriage license dated 1873, Census Records on the Whitney Family from 1830, death certificates, muster roles for the Mexican American war, Civil War pay vouchers, Land records, and other materials.

I believe the only way to preserve Family History is to share it. This is my only goal. This site is fantastic and I would like to be a part of it.

I will see if I can locate the pages and begin adding the information that I can there.
Thank you for this site.
Jess

== Look-Ups ==

Tim:

Here are more than you could possibly deal with!!

To augment our Massachusetts vital records collection:
* Membrino, Marcia L., and Paul A. Russell, eds., ''Paxton, Massachusetts births, marriages and deaths, 1748-1850'', (Bowie, MD : Heritage Books, c1996).
* Van Antwerp, Lee D., comp., and Ruth Wilder Sherman, ed., ''Vital Records of Plymouth, Massachusetts, to the year 1850', (1993).
* Stover, Margaret Harris, comp., ''Vital records of Raynham, Massachusetts'', (Plymouth, MA : General Society of Mayflower Descendants, 1997).

How about the 1798 Direct Tax of Massachusetts records? I don't know what form they are in, but they should be available at the NEHGS Library.

There are a '''''lot''''' of Maine vital records published that we haven't abstracted yet. There are county-wide marriage return books, of which we have only extracted the one for Cumberland Co. The others are Hancock, Oxford, Penobscot, Waldo, Washington, and York Counties.

Maine probate records:
* ''Abstracts of Probate Records of Penobscot County, Maine, 1816-1883: Including abstracts of Probate Records from Hancock County 1790-1816 relating to that part of Hancock County set off as Penobscot County in 1816''. Ruth Gray, editor. 616 pp. 38,179 entry Every Name Index. 1993. #1434. $95.00. Picton Press, P.O. Box 250, Rockport, ME 04856.
* ''The Probate Records of Lincoln County, Maine, 1760 to 1800''. Wm. D. Patterson, editor. Maine Genealogical Society Special Publication No. 6. 448 pp. Every Name Index & Place Index. 1991 (1895). #1177. $39.50. Picton Press, P.O. Box 250, Rockport, ME 04856.
* ''York County, Maine, Will Abstracts 1801-1858''; Maine Genealogical Society Special Publication No. 27. Compiled by Joseph Crook Anderson II, CG. 2 vol; 1,376 pp. 30,095 entry Every Name Index. 1997. 2 vol set: #1845. $99.50. Picton Press, P.O. Box 250, Rockport, ME 04856.

Perhaps these Revolutionary military records can be found at Ancestry.com, but if not, we could sure use them:
* Connecticut. Adjutant-General's Office, ''Record of service of Connecticut men in the I. War of the Revolution, II. War of 1812, III. Mexican War / compiled by authority of the General Assembly, under direction of the Adjutants-General ...'' (Hartford : [Case, Lockwood & Brainard Co.], 1889).
* Connecticut Historical Society, Hartford, ''Rolls and lists of Connecticut men in the Revolution, 1775-1783''; Collections of the Connecticut Historical Society, v. VIII (Hartford : Connecticut Historical Society, 1901).
* Connecticut Historical Society, Hartford, ''Lists and returns of Connecticut men in the revolution, 1775-1783''; Collections of the Connecticut Historical Society. vol. XII (Hartford, Connecticut Historical society, 1909).
* Hammond, Isaac Weare, ed., ''Rolls of the soldiers in the revolutionary war... Published by authority of the legislature...''; Provincial and State Papers, Vol. XIV-XVII, (Concord, N.H.: P. B. Cogswell, state printer, 1885-89).
* Roberts, James A., Comptroller's Office, New York State, ''New York in the Revolution as Colony and State, a Compilation of Documents and Records from the Office of the State Comptroller'', (Albany, N.Y. : J.B. Lyon Co., 1904). 2 v.
* Fisher, Major General Carleton Edward, and Fisher, Sue Gray, ''[Maine] Soldiers, Sailors, and Patriots of the Revolutionary War'', 944 pp. (Rockport, ME: Picton Press, 1982). #1324. $55.00. Picton Press, P.O. Box 250, Rockport, ME 04856.
* Fisher, Major General Carleton Edward, and Fisher, Sue Gray, ''[Vermont] Soldiers, sailors, and patriots of the Revolutionary War'' 672 pp. (Camden, ME : Picton Press, 1998). #1322. $49.50. Picton Press, P.O. Box 250, Rockport, ME 04856.
* Goodrich, John E., ''Rolls of the soldiers in the Revolutionary War, 1775 to 1783'', (Rutland, Vt. : Tuttle company, 1904).

Also, there are a huge number of town histories of towns in ME, NH, and VT which have genealogical sections. Some no doubt contain Whitney information.

That ought to keep you busy!

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 17:47, 18 July 2006 (CDT)

== How Many? ==

Tim:

This is an interesting exercise. I once investigated the statistical aspect of genealogy, especially the matters of how many ancestors a person living today had at remote times in the past, and how many descendants a person who lived in the past might have living today. It turns out both questions are very difficult in the abstract. The answer to the second question is likely to be, "Zero." A more tractable, but still difficult, question is how many descendants a set of contemporary people might have living today. The larger the group, the more likely one is to be able to say something interesting. Tools used are fertility rates, for those who had children, and rates of death without children, through history. In our case, we could take for that group the U.S. Whitney people living in, say, 1700. One has to take into account the fact that if a father and son were both living then, that all the descendants of the son are also descendants of the father, so cannot be counted for both. Then there is the matter of cousin marriages .... As I said, this is difficult! At the end, one gets statements like, "Given the assumptions _____, the chance that the number is between ___ and ___ is __%," which is not terribly satisfying, especially if the two numbers are far apart. The higher the percentage you pick, the father apart the numbers fall, of course.

You can see that the very practical approach you have begun is much more likely to yield meaningful results that the more mathematical/statistical/abstract approach.

You could link to this page from the [[Whitney Surname]] page.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 07:22, 19 July 2006 (CDT)

== Great Wiki ==

Tim,

You have done a great job on this wiki. I am starting one of my own called wikicpa.com for all this related to being a certified public accountant.

Where did you get the extension for your discussion forums? It is very similar to what I have been considering paying someone to write for me. Any help would be much appreciated.

Michael

== Curve Fit ==

Tim:

You have a convincing curve fit. I'm impressed! It seems to me that you could get an actual count of Whitneys by counting the total number of people in Whitney households in the 1790 Census. It might be a bit low, because of Whitneys in non-Whitney households, but that should be nearly compensated for by non-Whitneys in Whitney households. It would be an estimate, but really quite a good one (probably within 1%). Similar remarks apply to 1800 through 1840, of course, but it would be a longer job to do the counts, as there are at least ten categories instead of just three. (I suppose one can ignore the counts of slaves and free blacks.)

I may be able to do this, via Heritage Quest, even though I don't have an Ancestry.com subscription. Would you want me to try?

Would you want me to try to get actual counts for some of the early missing years for HOH and total?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 09:03, 20 July 2006 (CDT)

== Location Categories, III ==

Tim:

I've been going through the Categories and trying to correct some of them that seem wrong. I started at A and am now up through "Castle, New York", which seems to be universally "Seneca Castle, New York" (but there is also a real "Castile, New York" in Wyoming County!). I go to the Category page, and see the list of the pages referring to that category. Then I go to each of those pages and correct the category call at the bottom, meanwhile reformatting things I see which are artifacts of the import, such as the comment on the first line, putting the parents' names in with a link, bolding the wife's name, adding the mother's name before the list of children, changing "1." to "*" in the references, and fixing all the other erroneous categories. Then I save the page, and on to the next. You've patrolled these edits, so you can see my progress.

This will be a long job, but I think it's worthwhile.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 09:03, 20 July 2006 (CDT)

== Bot Versus Not ==

Tim:

Yes, the Bot can do those changes, but if I do them manually, I can do multiple edits at once, thus keeping the size of the database much smaller. Also, much of the editing uses my sense of what "isn't right", including transcription problems, misformatted dates, etc. I'm willing to continue this effort, which will get simpler as I progress, as I won't have to fix more than one error on the same page (hopefully!), having fixed the page at the occurrence of the first one. By the way, I'm changing St. Louis to Saint Louis (and analogues), Mt. Morris to Mount Morris (and analogues), No. to North, So. to South, E. to East, and W. to West, when they are parts of geographic names. I am also undoing some of the Col. -> Colorado transformations that were made in error, when Col. actually meant Colonel! 8^(

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 09:29, 20 July 2006 (CDT)

== African American Whitneys ==

Tim:

Your new page says that African Americans were first listed on the 1870 census. That's true only for former slaves, and that means almost always in the South. In the North, being free blacks, they appear in the 1850 and 1860 census, too, and if they were heads of households, they appear on earlier ones, as well. I'm not sure how to correct what you wrote, or I would have done it myself.

Do we have any (American) Indian [whatever the current politically correct phrase is] or oriental Whitneys?

Then there is the issue of mulattos. Should they be included in the count of African Americans, or in a separate category?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 17:39, 21 July 2006 (CDT)

== Native American Whitneys ==

Tim:

I did a search of the 1880 Census of the U.S. for Whitneys by race. I found a total of 16981 Whitneys in our index on the old web site. Using FamilySearch.org, I found:
* 683 black
* 179 mulatto
* 15 native American
* 2 oriental
* 0 Mexican
I suppose there must be 16981 - 683 - 179 - 15 - 2 = 16102 whites or those with race not given.
You can enter the 16981 number in your table at [[How many Whitneys?]].

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 07:09, 23 July 2006 (CDT)

== Location Categories, IV ==

Tim:

I've finished going through the categories and making all the changes I could find. I repeat the comment, "I can supply county names for places in Canada. Do we want to do that, or is the province name enough? I notice that some places have them, others don't." If you want me to do that, let me know, and I'll proceed with that. Should I make the changes on the page [[Pierce Conversion Project - Place List]], or on each individual family group record, or some other way?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 18:35, 31 July 2006 (CDT)

== thank you for your kind words. ==

thanks for your welcome on http://wiki.whitneygen.org/wrg/index.php/Discussion:I_come_in_peace...

my question is, are there any special modifications (like family tree diagrams) that you have that are not part of mediawiki? thanks!!

== Canadian Counties, II ==

Tim:

I'm in favor of adding county names to all Canadian locations. I'll start, but where do I make the changes? One option is on the family group record pages. Another would be on your master list of places at [[Pierce Conversion Project - Place List]]. There may be other options, too.

That should keep me busy!

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 09:29, 1 August 2006 (CDT)

== Master Place List ==

Tim:

Is it necessary to regenerate the master place name replacement list at [[Pierce Conversion Project - Place List]] since I have finished working on the categories?

By the way, have a nice trip! Talk to you when you return.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 06:53, 2 August 2006 (CDT)

== Canadian Counties, III ==

Tim:

Since I have only identified about 50 Family: pages with Canadian place names, I'll just correct each page, entering county names (but canton names in Quebec, which has them as analogues of counties, just as Louisiana has parishes instead of counties). I can do that in just a couple of days. Then I'll return to Robert's Projects.

Do we want to put location categories on Mailing List Discussions: pages, too? That seems like a lot of work, but possibly helpful to visitors.

I think we should wait to run the bot on place categories until after we import Phoenix pages. By the way, what is the status of that effort? I have created a template into which to insert information from newly-scanned pages, but I haven't tried to use it yet. That's partly because I don't know what the name would be of the Archive file containing a particular page of the book. Partly it's because I want to be very sure to be completely compatible with the import results. Partly it's because I've been busy (make that VERY busy!) working on the Pierce import.

I noticed some examples like this: "... served in County. B, under Capt. Smith, in Colorado. Jones's Regiment ..." They come from replacing "Co." with "County." (instead of "Company") and "Col." with "Colorado." (instead of "Colonel"). In many cases, that was a valid replacement, but in situations like the above, it was over-agressive. I have fixed many of these, but there may be others still lurking around. I can try to hunt for them and correct them, too. I thought you should be aware of their existence.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 10:16, 2 August 2006 (CDT)

== Census Formatting ==

Yes I would like to add formatting to get the information aligned. If you know what to do immediately to apply it, please do so, otherwise I'll try to review the documentation for formatting tonight and do it later.

- [[User:Andaleen|Andaleen]] - [[User talk:Andaleen|Talk to me]] 8:32, 2 August 2006 (PDT)

== Removing a User ==

Tim:

I think we need a way for people to remove themselves, their preferences data, and so on, and release their Username. I'm sure you could do it manually, but I think people should be able to do it without your intervention. Probably there are ramifications and issues with this suggestion which I cannot imagine, but you can. Let's discuss it.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 11:28, 4 August 2006 (CDT)

== Gary Boyd Roberts ==

Tim:

You've made good progress. Great!

No, I didn't know that Roberts had mentioned my new theory in a book. I did know that he was aware of it, in two ways. First, I sent him a copy, which he never acknowledged. Second, I heard of a discussion between Michel Call, Douglas Richardson, and Roberts, about my theory, when Call telephoned me last winter. Call was not enthusiastic about it and Richardson was highly skeptical. Perhaps Roberts has a more sanguine view of it than the other two. Call particularly wanted to point out that the descent from Edward III through Constance Touchet is wrong, and that James Whitney who married Blanche Milbourne was son of his father's other wife, Alice Vaughan, citing Peter C. Bartram's ''Welsh Genealogies''. He suggested that there might still be a royal descent from, perhaps, Henry I, but he didn't supply any details.

If you can find it at NEHGS, extracting the Whitney data from Bartram's work would be very useful.

I'd be interested in getting a photocopy of the relevant portions of Roberts's new book.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 14:49, 8 August 2006 (CDT)

== Fifth Generation ==

Tim:

I have just finished the last family group record for fifth-generation male Whitney heads of household. There are still 23 female Whitney heads, and 36 with other surnames, descended through female lines. This is in addition to the 27 fourth-generation plus 92 subsidiary fifth-generation pages that Andaleen was working on, descended from daughters of Joshua<sup>2</sup> Whitney, named Shepard, Jewell, Williams, and Farnsworth. "Only" 178 more pages to create. Progress!

I've used your form, which is good. I did notice that it gives you 10 children no matter how many you supply, and you have to add children beyond the 10th manually. This may not be worth fixing.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 17:15, 8 August 2006 (CDT)

== Family Group Record Form ==

Tim:

There is a gender issue with the form you created. When the head of the family is a male, it is fine, but when it is a female, there are problems. First of all, it refers to the head as "he",
and the spouse as "she". It calls the spouse "daughter of ...", and the names of the parents after "Children of ..." are inverted.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 06:58, 10 August 2006 (CDT)

== Recent Changes ==

Tim:

I've noticed an anomaly with the [[Special:Recentchanges|Recent Changes]] page. Yesterday I created a page called [[Family:Stevens, Thomas(1728-1755)]]. Then I noticed that the name was mal-formatted. I moved it to [[Family:Stevens, Thomas (1728-1755)]], changed all references to it, and deleted the redirect page. Not all these events were recorded in [[Special:Recentchanges|Recent Changes]]. Today a similar situation arose with [[Family:Stevens, Anna (1733-?)]] being moved to [[Family:Stevens, Anna (1733-1811)]].

What gives?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 12:37, 20 August 2006 (CDT)

== Whose page? ==

Tim:

I have encountered the case of Moses Blood (1750-1838), ''not'' a Whitney descendant, who had three wives. All three of them '''''ARE''''' Whitney descendants: Abigail Shattuck (1744-1810), Keziah (Shattuck) Shattuck (1745-1832), and Alice (Shattuck) Wright (1754-1840). There were only children by the first wife. What page should contain the record of his wives and children? What would the policy be if there were children by more than one wife?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 13:13, 13 September 2006 (CDT)

== Alured de Merleberge ==

Tim:

If you google "Alfred of Marlborough", you'll find that that was the actual name of [[Family:Alured de Merleberge (s1020-?)|Alured de Merleberge]], and there's lots of information about him and his holdings. He wasn't a Norman at all, but a Saxon, as his name reveals (think Alfred the Great). Why he was favored by the Normans with all those lands is not clear. I leave it to you to modify his page and other references to him, accordingly.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 13:54, 14 September 2006 (CDT)

== Bayeux, not Bayoux ==

Tim:

The file [[:Image:bayoux.jpg]] is misnamed. See [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayeux_tapestry the Wikipedia entry for the tapestry]. You need to delete it and, if you wish, upload a version with the correct spelling.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 17:15, 15 September 2006 (CDT)

== Jonathan Whitney Will Page ==

Tim:

[[Jonathan Whitney Will]] should be renamed Archive:Luzerne County, Pennsylvania, Probate Records. Then a link to it should be put on [[Archive:Probate Records]], labeled |Luzerne County, PA, Probate Records]], 1831. See the similar case for Ontario County, NY, Probate Records, 1881. Credit should be given to the person who supplied it.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 21:32, 18 September 2006 (CDT)

== Fifth Generation Done? ==

Tim:

I have finished making family group records for the last of the fifth generation heads of household, descendants of John<sup>1</sup> Whitney (I think!). This was the work that Andaleen had not finished. Now it's done. There remains a lot of sourcing on the fourth and fifth generations, and adding categories, but at least we have pages for them all.

In the process, I found a Hannah Whitney who was actually a widow Hannah (Russell) Whiting, and corrected that. Progress!

Next I think I'll work on the English part of the family, including not only attached people but also others, all before 1700. Any other suggestions?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 13:15, 20 September 2006 (CDT)

== Next Projects ==

Tim:

You suggested

:1. Medieval / early English Whitney families
::I'll get on this one next.
:2. Research immigrant families to other countries. I've recently done a lot of searching and have made contact with an Australian Whtiney family. I also found Whitneys in South Africa.
::I have very little idea how to proceed with this.
:3. Create archive pages for the military extracts that Ken Whitney has been posting to the mailing list.
::Excellent suggestion. I'll put that on my to-do list.
:4. Trace families from key locations in England from the 1841 census down through the last available census in an attempt to locate living male line descendants who could join our DNA study.
::Why not enlist John G. Whitney in Oxford to help with this?

Here's one for you: Run the bot to modify all the locality Category tags to include county names where they are missing. In all the pages I have done recently, I have been careful to do the categories with county names.

Here are some HUGE ones:
# Add locality categories to all of Andaleen's pages.
# Source all fourth- and fifth-generation pages from John<sup>1</sup>.
# Make pages for daughters with substantial information on their parents' page.

I'll add some items to the [[WRG:Website Conversion Project]].

There remain, of course, the matters of the Phoenix import and the rest of the census pages ...

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 10:30, 21 September 2006 (CDT)

== Duplicate User ==

Tim:

I see that [[User:Big Bill Whitney (UK)]] has also registered as [[User:W.a.whitney.uk@blueyonder.co.uk]]. One should be deleted, presumably the latter, and anyone trying to access that page redirected to the other. This seems to be an attempt to change his e-mail address.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 15:10, 22 September 2006 (CDT)

== Heir Male of the Whitneys of Whitney? ==

Tim,

Notice the family of [[Family:Whitney, George (s1526-a1587)|George Whitney]] of Icomb, Gloucestershire. His wife Julyan ----- was named in his nephew's will, and also his son George, Jr. (b. say 1555). The latter m. ----- Savage of Worcestershire, according to the pedigrees in Melville. Now notice [[Archive:Parish Register, Church Iccombe, Gloucestershire, England]]. There is a George Whitney (b. say 1585) with a daughter '''''Julian'''''. Now this can hardly be George, Jr., but it could well be a putative son, call him George, 3rd. Surely with that daughter's name, he is somehow descended from George, Sr.!

If that connection can be made, then George, 3rd, is the heir male of the Whitneys of Whitney, since the lines of all his brothers seem to have daughtered-out. Furthermore, George, 3rd, had sons, including a George, 4th, bapt. 1618.

If these sons' lines could be followed further, one might be able to trace at least one of them to the present, and get a DNA profile of the Whitneys of Whitney!! Perhaps we should broaden our search from Herefordshire to Gloucestershire.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 15:17, 2 October 2006 (CDT)

== Robert Whitney of Castleton ==

Tim,

If you reread my thesis, you'll see that some of the argument is based on the order of people listed in James Whitney's will as heirs. Thomas Whitney of Castleton and his brother Richard Whitney are in the position of second cousins. That implies that their Whitney ancestor had to be a son of James and Blanche (Milbourne) Whitney, not a brother of James, which would make them third cousins. Admittedly this is fairly thin, but it all hangs together, with no evidence to the contrary.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 19:24, 2 October 2006 (CDT)

== The Entail ==

Tim,

What you say has merit. Your solution is viable. I guess I was just using Occam's Razor: the simplest explanation is most likely to be the correct one.

It is well-known that the earlier the generation of a visitation pedigree, the more unreliable it is, and the curve is quite steep. Thus we can place very little reliability in what the pedigrees say about the great-great-grandfather of the claimant John Whitney of London (b. 1638), the former being the grandfather of our Thomas Whitney of Westminster. Only when the pedigrees can be supported by viable chronology and contemporary primary sources can they be trusted. For the early generations of the main line, there is such support, based on the descent of the lordship of Whitney. For the cadet lines, there is no such support.

I guess my point is that there is no reason to let the conflicting statements as to Thomas's grandfather deter us from accepting my thesis, as opposed to the solution you propose. We should be very interested in when the ownership of Castleton in Clifford Parish passed out of the ownership of the main line Whitneys. That would give us some indication of what time frame the line of Robert Whitney of Castleton split off that line.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 20:04, 2 October 2006 (CDT)

== Flourished? ==

Tim,

In some cases, we encounter someone whose birth and death dates are completely unknown, but who appears in a dated record. In such cases, is there any need to have a family group record page?

If we do decide to create such a family group record page, the issue of a name for it arises. Librarians often use the idea of saying things like "Geoffrey Whitney, fl. 1552," where fl. is an abbreviation for "flourished". What do you think of using names like "Family:Whitney, Geoffrey (fl1552)", or "Family:Whitney, Geoffrey (fl.1552)", or "Family:Whitney, Geoffrey (~1552)", to handle such cases? Or should we just use "Family:Whitney, Geoffrey (?-a1552)"?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 17:59, 6 October 2006 (CDT)

== Private Page ==

Tim,

The test worked. I'll start posting the draft.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 09:01, 10 October 2006 (CDT)

== Article ==

Tim,

Let's discuss the article in its own comments page, not in our User talk pages.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 09:59, 11 October 2006 (CDT)

== Alumni ==

Tim,

In default of any other obvious place, you could link to it from the Miscellaneous page. The only other possibility I see is Biographies, but I don't really like it.

If we get other data of the same type, like directories of physicians, or clergymen, etc., we could create a category of Professions, or some such name. Then we could link this in, since almost all graduates became clergymen or barristers.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 11:48, 13 October 2006 (CDT)

== How to Make Plaintext Small? ==

Tim:

I want to make the pedigree chart at the end of [[Archive:Whitney's Choice of Emblemes]] in a smaller font. It is inside a p tag making it plaintext. I don't want to put font tags at the beginning and end of every line. How can I do that effectively?

I also notice that some of the font tags I have used in footnotes aren't making the text smaller, either. I guess I don't understand changing sizes of text in the wiki paradigm.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 15:37, 14 October 2006 (CDT)

== How to Make Plaintext Small, Again ==

Tim,

This didn't work as desired. See the pedigree at the bottom of the page. I guess either I need more help, or I need you to edit the page until it works. Replacing div id="Lineages" with p id="Plaintext" (and /div with /p) makes the table look right, but not smaller.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 17:17, 14 October 2006 (CDT)

== Footnotes Smaller, Too? ==

Tim,

You'll see on the same web page, at the bottom of each of the transcribed pages lxxxii, lxxxv, and lxxxvii, appears a footnote, begun with an asterisk. Please explain why putting "font size=2" tags didn't work, and tell me what will work to make the footnotes appear in a smaller text than the rest.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 18:11, 14 October 2006 (CDT)

== Footnotes Smaller, Too, Again ==

Tim,

When I used font size=2 on the title page, it worked fine. Why did it work there and not in the footnotes?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 18:23, 14 October 2006 (CDT)

== Footnotes Smaller, Yet Again ==

Tim,

Using "font size=-1" didn't work, either. The only thing I found that worked was "font size=1", so I used that.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 18:38, 14 October 2006 (CDT)

== Problem with File ==

Tim,

There is a problem with the file <nowiki>Image:Will of Robert Whitney, 1541.jpg</nowiki>. I can include it in a web page using the usual construct <nowiki>[[Image:Will of Robert Whitney, 1541.jpg]]</nowiki>. I can also use <nowiki>[[Image:Will of Robert Whitney, 1541.jpg|thumb|400px]]</nowiki>. I can't use <nowiki>[[Image:Will of Robert Whitney, 1541.jpg|thumb|500px]]</nowiki>. When I use either version that works, and click on the image (which is a link, too), I get a totally blank screen. I can't delete the file, nor does reloading it seem to help.

Can you straighten out this mess? If not, can you delete the file and let me upload a new version, thus hopefully rectifying the situation?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 08:14, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

== Can One Post a .pdf File? ==

Tim:

I've been thinking about how to post the index to the Whitney and Clifford Manor documents. They came to us from Adrian as a large .pdf file. I don't want to print it out and do OCR on the pages. I'd rather just post it directly, but I don't know if that could work, or how to do it if it could. Any ideas?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 20:16, 3 November 2006 (CST)

== PDF ==

Tim,

Perhaps a better temporary measure would be to post it on the OLD website, and make a link to it from the new one. Asking for a volunteer sounds good!

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 09:16, 5 November 2006 (CST)

== Tree Template ==

Tim:

It seems to me to be just as much work to use this template as to draw the tree using ASCII characters, but the results are much prettier. I read some of the comments, and I agree that marriages should be designated with a double solid line, not a single dashed line. That means that more tiles would have to be designed and labeled by some single characters.

My net reaction is that this isn't worth the trouble, but I am not adamant about that view.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 21:36, 12 November 2006 (CST)

== Two Chronology Issues ==

Tim:

1. You wrote, " ... this would mean that his eldest son Robert was still living in 1645, but we have him listed as having died before 1638. Do you know why we have him listed thus?" Yes. It comes from the matriculation records of his younger brothers. If Constantine was second son in 1638, then Thomas, the eventual heir, must have been the first son, so all older sons must have died before that date, including Robert. There seems to have been a clerical error, either in the index, or, more likely, in the original document, and it should have said '''''Thomas''''' Whitney, esq., son and heir.

2. You wrote, "If the Eustace Whitney who married Elizabeth Freville in 1301 was actually [[Family:Whitney, Eustace de (c1287-c1352)|Eustace de Whitney (c1287-c1352)]], then he had to have been born before our estimated date of 1287. Either we have this Eustace's birthyear too late, or this marriage was a second marriage for his father [[Family:Whitney, Eustace de (s1256-?)|Eustace]]." The birth dates we have for the early generations are rough estimates and extrapolations from the ages of later generations. That means that they are likely to be off by a certain amount. My guess is that Eustace was born somewhat earlier, perhaps 1275-1280, and his father accordingly earlier. That also means that his son Robert probably was born before 1318, perhaps 1302-1307, and later generations might be accordingly somewhat older (possibly enough older to include an extra generation we don't show).

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 17:17, 19 November 2006 (CST)

== Bad Links ==

Tim:

On the "Recent Changes" page, in the toolbox on the lower left-hand side of the page, are two links, one labeled "rss" and the other labeled "atom". Neither is valid, although I can't say I understand the error message. (Neither do I have any idea what their purpose might be, but that probably doesn't matter.) Please either fix them or remove the links.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 12:53, 30 November 2006 (CST)

== Llores vs Llorde ==

Tim:

Looking more closely at the name, I think it actually must be Elinor Lloyde. I have changed the page to reflect that.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 09:21, 1 December 2006 (CST)

== Projects versus Conversion ==

Tim:

I see we have the [[WRG:Website Conversion Project]] page and a [[WRG Projects]] page. I am reorganizing these to reflect the division between converting the old website data to the new one (such as importing the existing Phoenix pages), and organizing the data on the new one (such as adding links between Pierce and the family groups coming from it). I also added a link to the latter on the Main page.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 08:54, 5 December 2006 (CST)

== Consolidation? ==

Tim:

I see that we have two pages that maybe would benefit from consolidation: [[Whitney and Clifford Manuscripts]] and [[Archive:Whitney and Clifford Manuscript Index]]. The consolidated page, perhaps named [[Archive:Whitney and Clifford Manorial Records Index]] should have breadcrumbs at the top, leading back to Archives and what else? Should we create a page for Whitney-on-Wye/Whitney Parish/Whitney Manor? Or would this be an appropriate use of the Category: page? Likewise for Clifford (Village)/Clifford Parish/Clifford Manor?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 09:28, 5 December 2006 (CST)

== Navigation ==

Tim:

What do you think of adding "sideways" links to the Family: pages, leading from each page to the next most senior in genealogical order? That way, one could step through a generation without having to go up the line to ancestors and then back down. This occurred to me because of my list of [[John Whitney Descendants by Generation]], which serves almost the same purpose.

As you no doubt have noticed, I have been working my way through the fourth generation from John<sup>1</sup> Whitney, cleaning up Andaleen's pages and adding place categories. I have NOT tried to source all the data. That remains a HUGE project for the future. I've now completed the grandchildren of John<sup>2</sup> and Richard<sup>2</sup>. Next is the grandchildren of Thomas<sup>2</sup>. Two done, four to go. Then there is the fifth generation, which figures to be about four or five times more work than the fourth.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 16:41, 15 December 2006 (CST)

== Location Categories and Pierce ==

Adding the categories to the transcription pages does seem silly. Should this be a policy for most or all the Extracts pages?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 17:41, 16 December 2006 (CST)

== 1880 Census ==

Tim:

There is still one link not done on the [[Archive:Census Records]] page: the index of the whole U.S.A. in 1880. Of course it is just a sorted concatenation of all the state indexes, but it still needs to be done.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 17:45, 16 December 2006 (CST)

== Migrating ==

Tim,

Congratulations on finishing the migration of the census pages!

As to the U.S.S. Constitution, I suppose we should bring it over, but I haven't been enthusiastic about doing that, since it is fairly tangential to the purpose of Whitney genealogy. There is a connection, of course, I just felt we had more important things to do. If it is the last thing left to do, then I suppose we should do it. <sigh> At least when it and the Phoenix import are done, we could say that we have finished the migration.

Actually, there is another import that has to be done: the descendant report for Ebenezer and Huldah (Mooers) Whitney of N.B.

Then there is the matter of the databases ...

I moved the adding of locality categories to [[WRG Projects]], under Families.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 21:27, 16 December 2006 (CST)

== Phoenix Page Name Format ==

Tim:

We have to decide whether we are going to keep the Phoenix pages in groups of five, or split them apart into single pages as you did for the Pierce Project. Once that is decided, we need to settle on the correct format for the names. For Pierce, we used [[Archive:The Descendants of John Whitney, page 99]], for example. For Phoenix, should we use [[Archive:The Whitney Family of Connecticut, page 99]], for example, or [[Archive:The Whitney Family of Connecticut, pages 96-100]]? Or would some other name be appropriate, such as [[Archive:Phoenix, page 99]] and analogue? If we split the book into single pages, probably we would have to subdivide the index page into several parts, not wanting to put 2700+ links on a single page.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 15:35, 21 December 2006 (CST)

== Article Notes and Issues ==

Tim:

Yes, I saw the new note. I don't think we need to change anything. We've referenced the visitation pedigrees multiple times. To do so again seems gratuitous. Perhaps if David Greene wants it, I'll add such a reference, but I think it's unnecessary.

I've also considered the Issues carefully. I can't really answer any of them, so to include statements to that effect seems not a useful exercise. Again, if David Greene or his reviewers want them addressed, I'll try to do something, but not unless. Also, the article is already over-long, so adding anything to it makes that problem even worse.

All I'm waiting for is the original pedigrees from England, and I'll submit the article.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 22:30, 21 December 2006 (CST)

== Placename Categories ==

Tim:

Adding placename categories to Andaleen's pages I consider a part of importing my 6-generation study from the old web site. For other pages, it's a WRG Project. That means it really fits under both topics.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 22:38, 21 December 2006 (CST)

== New Users ==

Tim:

The list of new users on the right-hand side of the Main Page is not working right. No new users appear for several days, even though they have, indeed, been added.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 08:48, 24 December 2006 (CST)

== Subtitle ==

Tim:

Good job with the subtitle on the main page! I like the idea and your execution of it. One suggestion: I think the page would look better with less space between it and the orange "Welcome" box below it.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 12:41, 27 December 2006 (CST)

== Andaleen Has Volunteered Again ==

Tim:

I see that Andaleen Whitney has volunteered to help with updating the census indexes with data from Ancestry.com. Let's start talking about what format/template/model to use.

Are you comfortable with the table format we are using, with headings Given Name, County, Township, Page, and Data? Should we put the Data on a separate census extracts page? It's obvious that this has to be done for 1850 on, but what about 1790-1840? Should we do that just for the sake of consistency? Should the link from the index to the data be Given Name, or the Page, or something else? Should we link the Given Name to a Family Group Record? We should definitely link the name on the extracts page to the FGR.

Other thoughts?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 17:56, 31 December 2006 (CST)

== James Francis Whitney ==

I have a little information on James Francis Whitney. Not sure if it is true still checking.
Parents may be: John Whitney m. Emily Tracy b. Ireland they married in New York around 1867. I was also told a different name so like I said still checking this out. I know that James parents moved to LaSalle because his father John was a brick layer and worked for the LaBasce Chimney Works and he relocated to LaSalle, Illinios around 1885. John Whitney help build the catholic church in LaSalle, Illinois they moved to LaSalle around 1885. This is what I have been told by older relatives that still attend the same church. I have sent information to the LaSalle Ottawa Genealogy Guild site to see if they have any records on the Whitney family. The whole town of Ottawa, Illinois is Whitney and Fribbs so that should be fun. Thanks for any research you can give me on this matter... Pam

== Parentage Unknown ==

Tim:

Of course this category should only apply to families. I put it on that page when there wasn't any family group record for John Whitney of Kinnersley, and forgot to remove it when I created that page. I erroneously rolled back your change, so now I've made it again, removing the category from the will page. Sorry about the error!

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 15:51, 6 January 2007 (CST)

== Copyright Date ==

Tim:

When a new page, either Family: or Archive:, is created using the facility for doing this that you made, a preloaded page is displayed. It contains a copyright notice. The date on that notice needs to be changed from 2006 to 2007.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 09:52, 7 January 2007 (CST)

== Jacob, son of Ezra ==

Tim,

Thanks for the message. Definitely a different Jacob (our Jacob died in 1833).

I will change my user page to reflect that.

Now we need to find a birthdate for Jacob Whitney, son of Richard Whitney, Jr.

Is there someone who can help us with this branch?

Thanks again,

Jerry

== Jacob, son of Richard ==

Yes. Timothy Watts Whitney went to Nashua, NH and married Hannah Frances Knight of Amherst, NH in 1849. They moved to Waterford, PA after that. She seems to have preferred Frances to Hannah. On some census she is Hannah F. and Francis H. Whitney on others. I don't know who the Samuel Whitney, Machinist in Nashua is.

Should I upload Timothy's obituary and link it to my user page? Among his next of kin, it lists his half-brother Warren Foster. Polly Watts married Daniel Foster after Jacob Whitney died in 1833.

I am working on Richard6 as Jacob's father.

I find Richard Whitney in the 1800 & 1810 census in Andover, VT (next to Weston) and in the 1820, 1830, 1840 census in Weston.

Jacob appears as head of household in 1830, living next to Richard Whitney.

(note: on Ancestry.com in 1830, Whitney is transcribed as Whiting) (Also, in 1840, Weston is called Baltimore on Ancestry.com)

I have an inquiry into Wilton, NH to see if there is any record of Jacob's birth, circa 1797.

From the descendents of John-1 generation 5
Children of Richard5 Whitney and Sarah Butterfield were:
3631. i. Richard6; b. 25 Jun 1770 at Wilton, NH; m. Salley (--?--) circa 1795 at Wilton, NH; d. 30 Mar 1845 at Weston, VT, at age 74.

Best regards,

Jerry

== Elizabeth Nelson's User Page ==

Tim:

What shall we do about Elizabeth Nelson's user page? I left her a message that what she has put there is impossible, with links to the sources. She persists in adding wrong information to her user page. I, for one, don't want that stuff on our web site, even if it is on a personal user page. Should we send e-mail? Should we just delete it? How about using strike-through to indicate the false data? How about a [NOTE] link to a page explaining the problem, as we did with Pierce? How about a warning box at the top of the page, like we did with Bond and Phoenix? Other ideas?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 20:41, 4 February 2007 (CST)

== Progress! ==

Tim:

I've finished reformatting and adding categories to the Family: pages of the fifth-generation descendants of John<sup>2</sup>, Richard<sup>2</sup>, and Thomas<sup>2</sup>. There remain Jonathan<sup>2</sup>, Joshua<sup>2</sup>, and Benjamin<sup>2</sup>. That means I'm not even halfway done (328 of 818 families, just over 40%) with that project. It has been long, about seven weeks, and will continue for some time, but the result will be worthwhile. It will remain to source all the facts on those pages, a much larger job, which I don't intend to begin! Then I'll begin to add pages for the sixth generation families of male Whitneys.

Have you given any more thought to the census page issues we discussed earlier?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 08:04, 5 February 2007 (CST)

== New Buttons ==

Tim:

Yes, they would be of use, except the subscripting, strikethrough, and picture gallery ones. Among the buttons already present, I also would never use the media file link or math formula ones on our web site.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 18:36, 9 February 2007 (CST)

== Computer Crash (again!) ==

Tim:

Well, it happened again. My Dell computer won't boot up to Windows XP. I've been on the line to technical support for three days, with mixed results. I am using my wife's laptop to send you this message. It's not clear how much longer this situation will last. Fortunately, the computer is still under warranty, so if it's a hardware problem, they have to fix it free. If it's a software problem, presumably that can be solved (eventually)!!). The laptop itself has major issues having to do with Norton Internet Security 2006, so I use it only sparingly. Hopefully I'll be back to business as usual very soon.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 12:07, 13 February 2007 (CST)

== He's Ba-a-a-ack! ==

Tim:

I'm back. At last! It turns out that the problem was an intermittently bad memory board. It passed all the hardware tests, but failed when trying to boot up Windows XP. I've removed the offending part, and am now running with half of my usual quota of memory. That slows things down a bit, as the OS is doing more paging now than before, but at least I'm functioning! Since my computer was still under warranty, Dell is sending me two (not one) memory modules, with which I'll replace the old ones (both of them), and return the old ones to them, with no charge (even for shipping!). The diagnosis of the problem was lengthy, and took many sessions with the tech support guys at Dell, Verizon, and Symantec.

Let me say a word for Norton Ghost. Without that, I'd have had a great deal of work to restore all the installed software and all my settings. My data I'd have gotten back from other backups, but Ghost 10.0 almost immediately returned me to the exact state I was at a week ago. Hooray!!

Now back to the work at hand.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 13:43, 14 February 2007 (CST)

== More Progress ==

Tim:

I've finished reformatting and adding categories for ALL of the fifth-generation heads of household.

What do you think of Andaleen's idea of inserting pre tags around each family group? I think it's unnecessary, and I don't really like it.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 15:40, 1 April 2007 (CDT)

== Wiki Error? ==

Tim:

Go to Recent Changes. Go back to 14:23 on 25 Feb 2007 and look at the unpatrolled edit there. When I click on (diff), I get a blank page. That seems like an error. Can you please look into the situation? It's been that way for several weeks.

There's another at 13:50 on 28 Mar 2007 of the same kind.

And another at 16:53 on 28 Mar 2007. All three are pages modified by Andaleen.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 07:51, 29 March 2007 (CDT)

== Duplicate Pages ==

Tim:

I see we have two pages which duplicate each other:
* [[Archive:Calendar of Probate and Administration Acts, Herefordshire]]
* [[Archive:Bishop of Hereford Court Books]]
Which one should we delete and redirect links to it to the other one?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 18:12, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

== Phoenix Footnotes ==

Tim:

I changed Template:PhoenixFootnote, and so I had to go back and change all the pages which used it. I think all those pages are O.K. now. This template now only creates one-column footnotes, left-justified. I can create one for one-column footnotes, centered, if that seems to be a good idea, reflecting the actual typography in the book. I don't know how to create one for two-column footnotes. I tried several permutations, but passing a table in as an argument to a template seems to fail. Another issue is that passing a block of lines with blanks at the beginning, to make a chart, as an argument to a template also seems to fail. It would be nice to have both those capabilities, but neither is essential.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 10:22, 1 May 2007 (CDT)

== Phoenix Import ==

Tim:

I have finished importing pages 1-346, consisting of the first six generations, of Phoenix's ''The Whitney Family of Connecticut''. This is slightly more than 1/3 of the pages I had previously transcribed. I can finish the job without help from a program. It should take me about a month of work, give or take.

I also used the material from pages 1-12 to flesh out the page of Henry<sup>1</sup> and create a page for his son John<sup>2</sup>. I realized that creating such pages is a more difficult operation than I had thought. The next big project for me after the import is that family group record creation, using the data from Phoenix. I thought I'd start with the Whitney males, then the Whitney females, then the children of Whitney females, and so on. Thoughts on this?

Comments?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 11:45, 6 May 2007 (CDT)

== Duplicates ==

Tim:

Yes, those two pages are duplicates.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 08:05, 16 May 2007 (CDT)

== Phoenix Progress ==

Tim:

I have finished making family group pages for all the male Whitney descendants of Henry<sup>1</sup> through the fourth generation. I have supplied sources for all facts. I have not tried to find ''all'' sources for these family groups.

There are 52 Whitney males in the fifth generation. I have considered making pages for them similar to what was done for the Pierce import, that is, just cite at the bottom that all data was imported from the Phoenix transcription, without trying to source each fact.

There are 4 Whitney females in the third generation, and 6 in the fourth generation. Do you think I should try to deal with them by sourcing each fact, or by the alternative method above, or just leave them alone for the time being?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 08:55, 20 May 2007 (CDT)

== Phoenix Process ==

Tim:

Here is the way I'm doing the Phoenix pages.

I create a large file with all the pages I intend to work on, by appending all the 5-page files together in a word-processor file (I actually use WordPerfect). The one I'm uploading now contains pages 347 through 500. I have another ready to go with 501 through 916. Each of these is about 0.7 megabytes. Then I do a lot of global search-and-replace operations to remove the HTML syntax and replace it with the templates and other wiki syntax. This is trickier than I originally thought, but feasible. Then I have to fix the links, including the PhoenixPageLinks arguments. This is a bit painful, but also feasible. Then I have to deal with footnotes, whether they are one-column or two, whether they are centered or not, and whether they contain charts. Charts are done separately, then pasted into the big file.

When all the edits are done, I can begin the uploading process: I copy a pageful from this file to the clipboard, and paste it into an edit window for the next page. Then I do a preview (which often turns up some anomalies), make any adjustments, and save the result. I use the "Next Page" link to open an edit window for the following page, and repeat until done.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 16:35, 25 May 2007 (CDT)

== Phoenix Essentially Done ==

Tim,

As you can tell, the Phoenix importation is essentially done. Remaining are just the links from the main Phoenix page to the book pages, which I'm working on. Then there is the matter of what more pages from the book should be transcribed. I'm thinking the 50-page index of places could be valuable. I'm also thinking that the person numbers in the index of names should be linked back to the book pages. Thoughts?

The next most important project in my opinion is how to deal with the databases. I'm afraid that this is your bailiwick, not mine. Thoughts?

I suppose I'll go back to making family group pages for the male-line descendants of Henry, as giving by Phoenix. If I get tired of that, there's plenty more to do with the descendants of John.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 18:54, 5 June 2007 (CDT)

== Database Options ==

Tim:

I've been thinking about the database problem. I have several comments.

First, I think we need to import the database information on families which are not already in the wiki format into wiki family group records. Then we will have to create links to and from them with the appropriate other family group records (parents and lineages, particularly). We may also need to modify existing family group records according to what is in the databases, but that's a bit trickier.

Second, I think we need to keep the current versions of the GEDCOM files available for download. This would be via a link to the old website, no doubt.

Third, as far as updating the wiki goes, it might be possible to get the database owners to send us, in addition to the new versions of the databases, a differential GEDCOM, that is, what has changed in the database since the last version. Then we could update the wiki family group records accordingly, without having to do a full import every time there is a new version.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 10:33, 6 June 2007 (CDT)

== Ebenezer ==

Tim:

I looked for things your bot could fix about the Ebenezer file. This could all be moot if we find a way to import directly from the GEDCOM to wiki family group records.

Complicating this is the fact that I have received a new version of the Ebenezer GEDCOM from Mary Ellen Jones, which I haven't done anything useful with, yet. I could make a new version of the HTML file on the old website, using TMG and the new GEDCOM, and then you could import that, as you have already done with the old one. Would that be a good idea for the interim?

<nowiki>One bot fix would be to convert strings like [#idNNN TEXT] to [[#idNNN|TEXT]], where NNN is a string of digits, and TEXT is any text not containing a ].</nowiki> Then when the anchor issue is fixed, this will create the proper links to the anchors.

I'm still looking at the file.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 10:45, 6 June 2007 (CDT)

== Searching ==

Tim:

Thanks for recreating the searches in Rootsweb and the Forum. That's a biggie for me!

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 12:33, 7 June 2007 (CDT)

== Problems Galore ==

Tim:

I see that all our Massachusetts Vital Records pages were affected by the "upgrade" of the wiki software to the newer versions. <nowiki>Now the <dl>, <dt>, <dd> and </dl> tags are not recognized.</nowiki> It looks like your bot has a big job to do to rectify all that.

<nowiki><dl> and </dl> tags can be deleted. <dt> tags can be replaced with a carriage return, and <dd> tags can be replaced with a colon. While you're about it, you can replace <b> and </b> with ''', <i> and </i> with '', <h2> and </h2> with ==, <h3> and </h3> with ===, etc.</nowiki>

Another issue I noticed is that I used <nowiki><font size=-2>...</font></nowiki> to display a gravestone inscription, and passed that in to the PhoenixEntry template as part of the second argument. This caused an error. I finally left the font size unchanged.

There are no doubt further artifacts to be discovered. I'll keep my eyes out for more.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 18:10, 11 June 2007 (CDT)

== More Changes ==

Tim:

<nowiki>Fine! Substitute for <br> instead <br />, and where ever the words "Whitney Research Group" appear without enclosing [[...]], add them. Furthermore, you can change <pre> and </pre> to <div id="plaintext"> and </div>, respectively. This holds true on every page at the web site.</nowiki>

<nowiki>I also see some left-over <p> tags, about which I'm not sure what to do.</nowiki>

Have you figured out how to deal with the anchors in the Ebenezer GEDCOM import?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 11:49, 12 June 2007 (CDT)

== Hubert Whitney ==

Yes, That's what I was thinking too. I want to confirm that Hubert is the descendent of

Chauncy Harris Whitney
Born: 1805-03-17
Oswego,Oswego,New York,USA
Died: 1874

whose mother is a Mayflower descendent. I'm still trying to get the hang of the wiki! Thanks for your post! I'm interested in any help you have to offer.

== More Errors ==

Tim:

I see on [[Archive:Holman Research Reports]], for example, that the wiki <nowiki>no longer recognizes <ol><li>...</ol> constructs, either. We'll have to replace the <ol> and </ol> with nothing and the <li> with #. I haven't seen and <ul> and </ul> yet, but if they appear and aren't recognized, the <ul> and </ul> can also be deleted, but now the <li> tags should be replaced with *.</nowiki>

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 08:28, 13 June 2007 (CDT)

== Silas and Turbodoug ==

Tim:

Isaac and Nathaniel from the article are not listed as children of Joshua<sup>4</sup> Whitney on the web page because the evidence for their existence has been invalidated. Isaac is a mistake for Isaac Kibbe, a son-in-law, married to Joshua's daughter Phebe<sup>5</sup>, and Nathaniel Whitney was another son-in-law, married to Joshua's daughter Hannah<sup>5</sup>. The identity of this Nathaniel is unknown. They were supposedly listed in Joshua's probate, but an examination of the original revealed the above relationships.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 21:48, 13 June 2007 (CDT)

== Joshua #3 ==

Tim- Thank you for the information about the third Joshua. In the handwritten notes from my father's cousin.

I have Silas Whitney b. 1770/71 marrying Tryphina Lane in 1791 died 1836 Buried in Temple Hill Cemetery, Geneseo, N.Y.. #2 wife Electa Hawks (came from Connecticut) and #3wife Huldah born 1774 died Oct. 4, 1846 in Rochester, May be buried in Temple Hill.
Children with Tryphina.
1. Jemima born 1792
2. Male child ?
3. Simeon L. born July 7, 1802
?4. Another son?

Silas 1795 Came to Ontario County, N.Y. from Medway MA. 1796 was in Ontario County at Pittstown (now Honeoye) Later in Bristol, N.Y. Came to Geneseo, N.Y.

1855- Silas was 85 yrs old and lived in son Simeon's home.

I am still digesting the handwritten pages but the above is an excerpt.
I will continue to correspond.

== Which Nathaniel? ==

Tim:

On [[Family:Whitney, Nathaniel (1696-1776)]] it says that "On 15 Oct 1727, at Concord, MA, he owned the covenant." Notice that his grandfather [[Family:Whitney, Nathaniel (1647-1733)]] married his second wife in 1724 in Concord. Don't you think it's more likely that the datum belongs to the grandfather rather than the grandson, who has no other known connection to Concord?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 20:05, 17 June 2007 (CDT)

== Ebenezer / Databases ==

Tim:

Of course I agree that working directly with the databases directly is the preferred method. You'll have to do that anyway for the remaining databases, so why not do it with Ebenezer, too? In fact, since we have a new version of his GEDCOM, the old descendancy report is obsolete anyway, so importing that version is a mistake, except as a test.

Using TMG is a good idea for each of the databases. Once the GEDCOM is imported, one has to go through a tedious process of editing and realigning all the place names. Then it would be a relatively easy matter to use TMG to create a report in any word processor format (HTML would be good, for the links), and containing whatever information the GEDCOM contains. The use of sentences for tag types is critical for creating grammatically correct versions of each fact. The precise contents and lay-out of such a report would be pretty much under control. The internal links would of course be HTML links. There is also the capability of generating place and name indexes for each such report, which might or might not be desirable.

The above is more or less the process I used to create the six-generation studies for John<sup>1</sup> and Henry<sup>1</sup>, and also the full descendancy for Ebenezer. If I did such a thing again, I'd pay more attention to the sentences for tags. For the purposes of the wiki web site, I think separate reports for each descendant might be preferable to a single massive report for everyone in the GEDCOM. Then the conversion to wiki format might be simpler, since one wouldn't have to split up the report first. I don't know if the HTML links would work in that case, but it would be worth finding out.

I don't know how to merge the information from the GEDCOMs with the wiki family group records that already exist. That is sure to be an issue at some point. There are family groups in some of the GEDCOMs that already exist, and there are some which can be linked from the existing pages through children which don't already have a page of their own, but appear on their parents' page.

I'll help in any way you think I could be useful.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 09:52, 19 June 2007 (CDT)

== RE: your edit of mine--- ==

Hi Tim,
My dad (Frank James Whitney) passed in February of 06 (just short of his 90th birthday). I have a brother,(Richard Alan) but he had only 2 girls, I never married and have no children--so, our line stops with my brother. I rather doubt that either of my neices will marry and have children. As Rich and I were cleaning out my dad's house, I found many things that I'd thought were lost. I've got George's marriage license to "Helen" Louise Jones in Australia as well as the name of her father. But I was not able, YET, to find out how/when her family came to be in Australia. I also know quite a bit about "Uncle" Frank (my dad's name sake). I have patents that he and ggrandfather George held as well as some photos. Of course I know of my dad and brother's war service in WWII & Vietnam. I hesitate to post it as it is "current" data and it could be used for an identity theft situation. I doubt any of this info would be of interest to anyone outside of our line.
By the way, I've corrected something on your addition--there is no RIVERSIDE, Illinois where George & Frank were suppose to live. They lived in HUBBARD WOODS which is now WINNETKA, ILLINOIS. They died there and are buried in Sycamore, Illinois. No one knew much about the other "Uncle" Fred as far as we knew he died/was killed/?? in Minnesota before anyone moved down to Illinois. My grandfather, Fred Allington--son of George and Orrilla--passed in the late 70s and again, I hesitate to post info about him for the same reasons mentioned above.

I'm trying to figure out how/why/when exactly our ancestors left the "east" and traveled "west" to end up in the Ohio/Minnesota/Illinois area. Any help there that you might run across would be appreciated.

Thanks.
Sandy Whitney (Las Vegas, NV)

== Samuel Whitney Descendant ==

Tim,

Tara posted this on my message page. Can you oblige?

"Could you put kit #92676 up on the web for my brother and I. I am not sure how to get the results on the web page. Thanks. You and Tim are doing great work!

Tara (Whitney) Bellomy"

- [[User:Rlward|Robert L. Ward]] - [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 16:00, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

== Census Conflicts ==

Tim:

We have a problem with (at least!) the 1800 Massachusetts Census. I started to compare the "Data" column we had before with the extracts I just made from the images of the original census pages as provided by Heritage Quest Online. There are a lot of differences, some of them truly inexplicable. I have no idea how this came about, but I am quite sure that my extraction is fairly accurate.

Should we just delete the previously posted data, and rely on the new extractions? Would you check to see if the versions on Ancestry.com verify one or the other?

Also, there were several images for Hampshire Co., MA, which were not available at HQO. You can find them by searching for "not available". Would you please extract the data for those families and enter it in the appropriate place on [[Archive:1800 Census Extracts, Massachusetts]]?

Thanks!

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 15:21, 13 July 2007 (CDT)

== Response to Gus Whitney question ==

You left the following comment on my page:

I found the following. Is this the right family?

:1930 U.S. Census, Livingston, Polk Co., TX
:Gus Whitney, aged 57, born in Iowa, a building carpenter, divorced
:son Barnett, aged 22, born in TX, an automobile mechanic
:son Louis, aged 18, born in TX

- [[User:Tdoyle|Tim Doyle]] - [[User talk:Tdoyle|Talk to me]] 16:58, 28 May 2007 (CDT)

'''RESPONSE'''

Yes, this is the right family. son Barnett is my grandfather. Note that Gus listed Iowa as his birthplace. On an earlier census he listed Texas. From what my grandfather told me, there was a concern about telling people the family was German during the period of the WW's. I can't blame them, but it makes it awful hard to follow.

Iowa, specifically, Keokuk, may be where one of the older sisters - Anna - ended up. I have found an Anna Whitney working as a servant there. Have to be close to where we tie into the Whitney family. Strange that this is an adoption line, not a true Whitney line, isn't it?

And, saw your page, wow. Thanks for even noticing the post and looking.

'''Gus'''

== Census Conflicts II ==

Tim:

As an example of the census conflicts I mentioned between [[Archive:1800 Census Index, Massachusetts]] and [[Archive:1800 Census Extracts, Massachusetts]], the first alphabetically is Aaron Whitney, Sherborn, Middlesex Co.:
Old New
p. 251 01010/10101/00 p. 252 10101/01010/00.
For another, randomly chosen, example, I tried Ebenezer Whitney. There were three in Hampshire Co.:
Old New
p. 211 01001/20101/00 p. 927 20101/01001/00 Belchertown
p. 285 01100/10110/00 p. 841 10110/01100/00 Hadley
p. 48 10010/32010/00 p. 1231 32010/10010/00 Montague
It looks like the old data has reversed the male and female numbers!! It also is using a different page numbering scheme somehow. Egad!

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 20:10, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

== Census Help ==

Tim:

I'd appreciate an assist in two areas of my census extraction project.

1. New York, 1800: Several "not available" entries need to be filled in from Ancestry.com.

2. Massachusetts, 1810: On the second line from the top of the last page for Orange, Hampshire County, just below Nathan Whitney, there is a given name I cannot read. In the extraction and the index, I have written the name as [---].

Thanks!

- [[User:Rlward|Robert L. Ward]] - [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 12:33, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

== Page/user deletion ==

I inadvertently created two user ids and pages. Please delete the older ones, i.e., under CurtWhitney.
Thank you.
Curtwhitney

== Census Progress ==

Tim:

I have finished extracting the censuses from 1790 through 1820. Heritage Quest Online doesn't yet have 1830 through 1850, nor 1930, on-line. I am '''not''' planning on starting 1860 through 1920, which they do have on-line, although I am willing to look up individual items.

I think I'll try to analyze the ones I've posted, creating links to and from family group records where they exist. Perhaps I'll create some family group records for families in the census which I can't identify.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 16:03, 27 July 2007 (CDT)

== Census Link ==

Tim:

The link is to Nathaniel Whitney's page for Nathaniel's unmarried son Amos, who doesn't have a page of his own.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 15:03, 1 August 2007 (CDT)

== 1790 Census Images ==

Tim:

I am noticing that even the 1790 census images I am reading have confused Whitney with Whiting in several places. The handwriting in the images is clearly Whitney, but the individuals are surely Whiting men. For an example, consider "John Lake Whitney", Shrewsbury, MA, page 544. The image is crystal clear, and the reading is unmistakable. I can't find anyone by that name, but there was definitely a John Lake Whiting in the Shrewsbury VRs, who m. 27 Aug 1782, Olive Wyman, and recorded two children there.

I can only conclude that the pages of which we are seeing images are copies of some originals, now lost, and that the unknown copyists made the errors. The fact that some townships have their entries alphabetized by last name initial supports the hypothesis of a copying (and rearranging) at some point. I confess that I was not aware of this.

Additionally, there could be indexing errors. I found one example where the index showed Whittne, one of our variant spellings, but the image showed Whitten, a different family. There were other kinds of errors, too.

This means that even the images we are using are not primary sources. That has some unfortunate consequences. One is that we may have to go through the indices and images again for the Whiting surname, looking for stray Whitney individuals! Sorting them out from the real Whitings is a task I wouldn't look forward to! It could involve compiling a family tree of the three Whiting families (descendants of Samuel, Nathaniel, and William Whiting, immigrants) down to 1790. This is not to mention the Whiton or Whitten families.

I know you have encountered the same phenomenon with one of your own Whitney ancestors, listed in the census as Whiting.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 09:27, 2 August 2007 (CDT)

== 1790 Heads ==

Tim:

Thanks for creating the list you did. It should be very helpful, however, it must be incomplete, because the Henry descendants have only been carried down to the fifth generation. There will be some sixth generation ones who would qualify but don't yet have family group records. I have already had to create such a page for [[Family:Whitney, Sherwood (1767-1848)|Sherwood<sup>6</sup> Whitney]] to accommodate one census entry from Vermont, no doubt there will be more from New York, and I may have missed some from Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Vermont.

I could go through the sixth generation from Phoenix and create pages I think would qualify, and then add them to your list. Probably I should do that next before continuing with the 1790 links.

If you'd like to check off the ones on your list we have identified, that would be good. You could add the place we found them, with a link to the appropriate 1790/91 census extract. I think this would be a great addition to our suite of census pages, with similar ones for each census year. For the time being, I don't see doing more that just 1790/91, but certainly we would want to have a similar thing for 1800 through 1820, at least. With Heritage Quest Online, I can do searches for those years by first name only, which could turn up some missing folks hiding under Whiting or other (mis-)spellings.

What do you think about creating a Research: namespace for this and other pages we are using for that kind of purpose?

By the way, do you have any idea who [[Family:Whitney, Joshua (c1746-1816)]] could be? All of the Joshua Whitney men I have born in the 1740s seem to be otherwise accounted for. Do we have any DNA evidence from descendants of Calvin or Haynes to point us anywhere?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 09:39, 5 August 2007 (CDT)

== Localities ==

Tim:

Agreed that the Localities page should be as you suggest. That makes a good deal of work making sure that all pages are properly categorized, but worth it in the long run.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 10:37, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

== Census Volunteers ==

Tim:

I see that we have a new volunteer to help with census work, Carol Whitney Cook. I'll be glad to ask her if she has access to Ancestry.com, to make the new indexes and extractions from the 1830, 1840, and 1850 censuses, with your approval. Somehow we should split that work up between her and Andaleen Whitney. If you prefer, you can organize the two of them and yourself to do that. I'm plenty busy identifying the census entries with family groups, and then reformatting the family group pages encountered in the process.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 10:37, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

== Locality Categories ==

Tim:

It sounds like you're doing a good thing. I approve. I hope that, when you find a misspelling, you either manually correct it on the appropriate page(s), or set the robot to do that, too. Also be on the look-out for erroneous county assignments. It could be, for example, that Charlestown would be listed under both Suffolk and Middlesex Counties, MA, when only Middlesex is correct.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 11:15, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

== Killlingly 1790 Census ==

Tim:

If you give me the page number, I can look at Heritage Quest Online to see if they have the image of that page for Cornelius Whiting. FamilySearch.org lists only one Cornelius Whiting, of Wrentham, MA, who died as an infant, and the birth of the Cornelius Whitney in question, erroneously listed under Whiting:<div id="Plaintext90">
CORNEULIUS WHITING
Male

Event(s):
Birth: 05 JUL 1749 Killingly Twp, Windham, Connecticut
Christening:
Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: MATETHYAS WHITING
Mother: ALLIS
</div>I conclude that any records for a Cornelius Whiting at this time period, and especially in this place, must refer to this Cornelius Whitney instead.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] - [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 10:13, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

Hi Tim - thanks for the pointing me in Al's direction. I stumbled across him last night and we have been in contact. Great web site - thanks

== Odd Error ==

Tim:

I noticed that on [[Archive:The Whitney Family of Connecticut, page 698]] at the bottom, the "Next Page" link is not working, and I can't figure out why. Can you?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert L. Ward]]- [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 12:15, 14 August 2007 (CDT)

== DNA ==

Tim
I am still learning how to use the wiki so may not have replied to your message about someone of Joshua's lineage contributing. I have since then completed a DNA test and the results are posted.

I also have some information about my lineage beyond what is in Pierce. How do I post it on the appropriate page?

User:Bruce Whitney/Lineage

2007-08-15T16:56:09Z

Bruce Whitney:

* [[Family:Whitney, Thomas (s1550-1637)|Thomas<sup>A</sup> Whitney]], m. Mary Bray
* [[Family:Whitney, John (1592-1673)|John<sup>1</sup> Whitney]], m.(1) Elinor -----
* [[Family:Whitney, Joshua (1635-1719)|Joshua<sup>2</sup> Whitney]], m.(2) Abigail Tarbell
* [[Family:Whitney, Cornelius (c1680-?)|Cornelius<sup>3</sup> Whitney]], m. Sarah Shepard
* [[Family:Whitney, Matthias (1720-a1770)|Matthias<sup>4</sup> Whitney]], m. Alice Robbins
* [[Family:Whitney, Cornelius (1749-1833)|Cornelius<sup>5</sup> Whitney]], m. Elizabeth May
* [[Family:Whitney, Cornelius (1782-1845)|Cornelius<sup>6</sup> Whitney]], m. Rhoda Gould
* [[Family:Whitney, Silas (1809-1891)|Silas<sup>7</sup> Whitney]], m. Matilda Cross
* [[Family:Whitney, Oscar Cross (1851-1933)|Oscar Cross<sup>8</sup> Whitney]], m. Onona M. Bliss
* Albert Oscar<sup>9</sup> Whitney, m. (2) Ella Delong Driver
* Bruce Arnold<sup>10</sup> Whitney, m. (2) Sue Ann Blasing

Archive:Whitney and Clifford Manorial Records

2006-11-21T15:45:37Z

Bruce Whitney: /* Page 80 */

__NOTOC__

{{divbox|red|Notice|Please use the '''[Edit]''' links next to each page. This will allow you to edit one page at a time and reduce the risk of two people editing the entire page and stepping on each other.}}

== Overview ==
The records of the Manor Whitney and Clifford are currently held at the University of Wales Bangor. These records date from 1333 to 1891 and comprise 2.25 linear metres of materials. The following typewritten index was obtained from the University of Wales Bangor. The Whitney Research Group is currently in the process of transcribing this index on this page.

== PDF File ==
The original PDF file can be obtained from http://www.whitneygen.org/WhitneyManor.pdf.

== Manuscript Status ==
=== Manuscripts Obtained ===
Photocopies of the following manuscripts have been obtained:
* 208, [[Archive:Whitney and Clifford Manuscript, 213|213]], 315, 316, [[Archive:Whitney and Clifford Manuscript, 378|378]], 473, [[Archive:Whitney and Clifford Manuscript, 474|474]].

=== Manuscripts Unobtainable ===
Copies of the following manuscripts were not able to be obtained:
* 317 (missing)
* 405 (too fragile to copy)

=== Manuscripts Desired ===
The following manuscripts are desired:
* 1 - By far the oldest document
* 5 - None of these individuals can currently be placed.
* 60 - Son and heir Robert should have been dead at this time. Is the date correct? Does it really say Robert?

== Content ==
A collection of 571 items relating mainly to the manors and parishes of Whitney and Clifford in northwest Herefordshire. It comprises deeds and documents concerning lands in Stow, Millhalf and Whitney, 1333-1852; records of the court leet and court baron of the manor of Whitney, including presentments, suit rolls, surveys and valuations, maps and plans, 1676-1874; deeds and documents concerning lands in Castleton and Clifford (alias Llanfair-ar-y-bryn), 1339-1855; records of the manor of Clifford, including bailiffs' accounts, presentments, rent rolls, surveys, valuations, maps and plans, 1381-1889; deeds relating to lands and properties in the parishes of Winforton and Brilley, 1594-1866; wills, letters and administration, etc., relative to members of the Whitney, Wardour and Dew families, lords of the manors of Whitney and Clifford, 1567-1828; miscellaneous accounts, vouchers etc., 1776-1846 and correspondence, including letters addressed to Tomkyns Dew (II), 1724-1889. The collection also includes a few deeds concerning properties in Ireland (Galway), Hertfordshire (Sarratt), Middlesex and London 1722-1802.

== Index ==
=== FOREWORD ===

This collection, consisting of 571 items ranging in date from 1333 to 1891, was deposited in the library in 1954 by the widow of the late Mr. E. Thornton Jones, Glyn Garth, Anglesey, who for many years practiced as a solicitor in High Street, Bangor. It comprises deeds, presentments, bailiffs accounts, surveys, correspondence and miscellaneous papers relating to the manors and parishes of Whitney and Clifford in north west Herefordshire, an area which was originally part of Gwent. There is also a small group of deeds concerning properties in Hertfordshire, Middlesex and London. How or why such a collection ever found its way to the office of a Bangor solicitor remains a complete mystery, for there is nothing in the contents to indicate even the remotest connection with North Wales and Bangor in particular.

The manor of Whitney is stated to have been obtained by one [[Family:Turstin (s1045-a1086)|Thurstin the Fleming]], a companion of the Conqueror, who married Agnes, only child of [[Family:Alfred of Marlborough (s1020-?)|Alured de Merleburgh]], and their son, Eustace, assumed the name de Whitney from this manor. His descendant, Sir Eustace de Whitney, who was M.P. for Herefordshire in 1312-3, figures as party to the first deed in the collection, dated 1333; it was his grandson, Sir Robert de Whitney (see Nos. 3, 196, 197), who in 1402 received a grant of the castles and lordships of Clifford and Glasbury from Henry IV in consideration of the services of his father, the first Sir Robert, who was killed at the battle of Pilleth in 1401 while opposing the forces of Glyn Dwr.

Both manors together with other lands in the parishes of Winforton and Brilley remained in the posession of the Whitney family until the 1692-3, when William Wardour, of Lincoln's Inn and Westminster, Clerk of the Pells in Chancery, acquired by purchase the four equal shares in the estate which after the death without issue of Thomas Whitney, only surviving son of Sir Robert Whitney (d. 1653), had come to his sisters and co-heirs: Lucy,* wife of Robert Price of Bwlch y beudy, co. Denbigh; Susannah, widow of Henry Williams of Cabalva; Ann, widow of Thomas Rodd of Foxley; and Eleanor, widow of Dr Nathaniel Wright (see Nos. 383-94). William Wardour died in 1699 leaving his estate to his eldest son, Col. William Wardour, who, dying unmarried in 1746, left it to his only brother, Tomkyns Wardour. In 1767, by the will of Tomkyns's widow, the Whitney and
Wardour property came to her sister, Mary Bourne of St. George's Hanover Square, Middlesex, who in turn left it to Tomkyns Dew of Lincoln's Inn, the first of three of that name who feature in this collection as lords of the manor of Whitney from 1780 to the close of the nineteenth century.

[An useful account of the Whitney family and of the devolution of the property will be found in : [[Archive:Hundred of Huntington|''Collections towards the History and Antiquities of the County of Hereford in continuation of Duncumb's History: Hundred of Huntington'']], by Morgan G. Watkins (Hereford, 1897), pp. 77-96]

:::::::::E. Gwynne Jones,

27 June, 1956.
::::::::::Librarian.
=== Table of Contents ===

{|
| width=40 |
|
| width=45 | page
| width=100 |
|-
| colspan=4 | I. MANOR AND PARISH OF WHITNEY:
|-
| align=right valign=top | (i)
| Deeds and allied documents...............................
|   [[#Page 1|1]] - 24
|-
| align=right valign=top | (ii)
| Manorial records................................................
| [[#Page 24|24]] - 25
|-
| align=right valign=top | (iii)
| Rentals, etc. .....................................................
| [[#Page 25|25]]
|-
| align=right valign=top | (iv)
| Surveys, valuations, etc. ....................................
| [[#Page 25|25]] - 26
|-
| align=right valign=top | (v)
| Maps and Plans.................................................
| [[#Page 27|27]]
|-
| align=right valign=top | (vi)
| Miscellaneous....................................................
| [[#Page 27|27]] - 29
|-
| colspan=4 | II. MANOR AND PARISH OF CLIFFORD:
|-
| align=right valign=top | (i)
| Deeds and allied documents...............................
| [[#Page 30|30]] - 54
|-
| align=right valign=top | (ii)
| Manorial records................................................
| [[#Page 55|55]] - 57
|-
| align=right valign=top | (iii)
| Surveys, valuations, etc. ....................................
| [[#Page 57|57]] - 58
|-
| align=right valign=top | (iv)
| Maps and Plans.................................................
| [[#Page 58|58]] - 59
|-
| align=right valign=top | (v)
| Miscellaneous....................................................
| [[#Page 59|59]] - 60
|-
| colspan=4 | III. MANORS AND PARISHES OF WHITNEY AND CLIFFORD (MIXED):
|-
| align=right valign=top | (i)
| Deeds and allied documents................................
| [[#Page 61|61]] - 68
|-
| align=right valign=top | (ii)
| Schedules of title deeds, abstracts of
|-
|
| title, etc. ...........................................................
| valign=bottom | [[#Page 68|68]] - 69
|-
| align=right valign=top | (iii)
| Surveys and valuations, .....................................
| [[#Page 69|69]]
|-
| align=right valign=top | (iv)
| Rentals and accounts ........................................
| [[#Page 69|69]]
|-
| align=right valign=top | (v)
| Maps and plans..................................................
| [[#Page 70|70]]
|-
| align=right valign=top | (vi)
| Miscellaneous....................................................
| [[#Page 70|70]] - 71
|-
| colspan=4 | IV. OTHER HEREFORDSHIRE PARISHES: Winforton and
|-
|
| Brilley: ..............................................................
| valign=bottom | [[#Page 71|71]] - 72
|-
| colspan=2 | V. HEREFORDSHIRE AND ADJACENT COUNTIES ........
| [[#Page 72|72]] - 74
|-
| colspan=4 | VI. IRELAND, HERTFORDSHIRE, MIDDLESEX & LONDON :
|-
| align=right valign=top | (i)
| Ireland...............................................................
| [[#Page 74|74]]
|-
| align=right valign=top | (ii)
| Hertfordshire......................................................
| [[#Page 74|74]] - 76
|-
| align=right valign=top | (iii)
| Middlesex and London........................................
| [[#Page 76|76]] - 79
|-
| colspan=2 | VII. WILLS, LETTERS OF ADMINISTRATION, ETC. ........
| [[#Page 79|79]] - 82
|-
| colspan=2 | VIII. ACCOUNTS, VOUCHERS, RECEIPTS, ETC. ...........
| [[#Page 82|82]] - 84
|-
| colspan=2 | IX. CORRESPONDENCE ..............................................
| [[#Page 84|84]] - 86
|-
| colspan=2 | X. MISCELLANEOUS ...................................................
| [[#Page 86|86]] - 89
|}

== Page 1 ==
<div id="Plaintext">
I. <u>MANOR AND PARISH OF WHITNEY.</u>

(i) <u>Deeds and allied documents.</u>

1. 1333. DEED INDENTED witnessing that [[Family:Whitney, Eustace de (c1287-c1352)|Eustace]]
[[Family:Whitney, Eustace de (c1287-c1352)|de Whitney]], lord of Whitney has at the
request of Sir Roger de Whitney,
Philip de Pencombe, William de
Kekenwyche, William de Almaly and others
granted to the commoners and landowners
of Clifford, for a sum of money paid to
him, licence to pasture their animals
on land belonging to him called <u>la brome</u>
(Norman-French)

2. [n.d.-c.1370?] 1. [[Family:Whitney, Robert de (1318-c1380)|Robert de Wyteney]], son and heir of
[[Family:Whitney, Eustace de (c1287-c1352)|Sir Eustace de Wyteney, Kt.]]

2. John de Wytneye, brother of the
said Robert.

GIFT of land in the Manor of Whitney
which formerly belonged to John, son
of Isaac.

3. 1424/5. BOND by William Stowe, as assignee of
[[Family:Whitney, Robert (c1379-1441)|Sir Robert Whitney]], lord of Whitney, to
pay to the prior and convent of
Wormesley a rent of 2/4 for 99 years
for a tenement called <u>le Halvechyden.</u>
Friday, on the eve of Epiphany

4. 1424/5. DUPLICATE of No. 3.

5. 1470. Nov.4. WRIT OF HABERE FACIAS SEISANAM to give
possession to Eustace de Whyteney and
Elizabeth his wife, of the Manor of
Whyteney, being cognizees in a Fine
levied between them and Roger de
Whyteney, parson of the Church of
Pencombe.

6. 1474. 1. [[Family:Whitney, Robert (c1436-a1473)|Robert Whyteney, esq.]], lord of
Whyteney

2. Howell ap Richard a Badam

GIFT of a messuage and 8 acres of arable
land lying in Yeuanes Crofte. The said
messuage lies between <u>Yeuanes Crofte</u>
and the highway and extends from the wood
of Brulley to the wood of Whyteney.
Thursday, before the Feast of St. George
(April 23).
</div>

== Page 2 ==
<div id="Plaintext">
7. 1491/2. Feb 12. 1. Richard Lyncks, rector of
Standon, Walter Mills, vicar of
Kington and Rowland Blackeston.

2. Robert Whitney, esq.

GIFT of the lordship or manor of
Whitney with its appurtenances in the
marches of Wales or in the
county of Hereford, lying between
Yardesley and Clifford, the
advowson of the church of Whitney
and all lands in Whitney, Stowe and
Milhalgh which they formerly had of
the gift and confirmation of the said
Robert Whitney by his deed dated
4 February, 1491/2.

8. 1492. Oct.4. FINAL CONCORD between Simon Milbourne,
esq., Roger Vaughan of Clyro, esq.,
Walter Bellehedde, rector of
Wynfreton, Walter Mille, vicar of
Kington, and John Taillour, vicar of
Almaly, plaintiff, and Thomas
Vaughn of Bredwardine, esq.,
Eleanor, his wife, Roger Vaughan of
Talgarth, esq., and Joanna, his wife,
deforceants, when the deforceants
acknowledged the manor of Whitney,
the advowson of the priory church of
St. Peter of Whitney, two mills, six
messuages, 300 acres of land, 100
acres of meadow, 100 acres of pasture,
100 acres of wood and £10 rent in
Whitney, Stowe and Millehalgh to be
the right of the plaintiffs.

9. 1492. Oct.4. FINAL CONCORD between Simon Milbourne,
esq., Roger Vaughan of Clyro, esq.,
Walter Bellehedde, rector of the
church of Wynfreton, Walter Mille,
vicar of Kington, and John Taillour,
vicar of Almaly, plaintiffs, and
Thomas Vaughn of Bredwardine, esq.,
and Eleanor, his wife, Roger Vaughan
of Talgarth, esq., and Joanna, his
wife, deforceants, when the
deforceants acknowledged the manor
of Whitney, the advowson of the church
of St. Peter of Whitney, two mills,
six messuages, 300 acres of land, 100
acres of meadow, 100 acres of pasture,
100 acres of wood and £10 rent in
Whitney, Stowe and Millehalgh to be
the right of the plaintiff.
</div>

== Page 3 ==
<div id="Plaintext">
10. 1492. Oct.4. RECORD of Fines of the manor of
Whitney taken before Walter Vaughan
of Hergest, Steward of the manor of
Huntington
The parties to the two Final Concords
annexed are the same, viz:

Simon Milbourne, esq., Roger
Vaughan of Clero, esq., Walter
Bollehedde, rector of Wynspeton,
Walter Mille, vicar of Kyngton
and John Taillour, vicar of
Almaly, plaintiffs, and Thomas
Vaughan of Bradwardyn, Eleanor,
his wife, Roger Vaughan of
Talgarth, esq., and Joanna, his
wife, deforceants.

11. 1492. Oct. 8. 1. Simon Milbourne, esq., Roger
Vaughan of Clero, esq., Walter
Bollehedde, rector of Wynfreton,
Walter Mille, vicar of Kyngton
and John Taillour, vicar of
Almaly.

2. Robert Whitney, esq.,

FEOFFMENT of the manor of Whitney, the
advowson of the church of St. Peter
of Whitney, together with lands and
tenements in Whitney, Stowe and
Millehalgh, to the use of the said
R.W. and his heirs male, and in the
event of his death without heirs
male, to the use of the said R.W. and
his heirs by his first wife, Constance,
daughter of Sir James Andeley, lord
of Andeley, and in the event of the
lack of such heirs, to the right
heirs of the said R.W.

12. 1546. July 14. 1. Robert Whitney, esq.,

2. John Baskervile, Charles Vaughan,
William Delahay and Thomas
Havard of Willarsley, gent.

SETTLEMENT of the manor of Whitney
to the use of the said Robert and
Sybil, his wife and their heirs.

13. 1550/1. Jan.18. 1. Hugh Pemwyer of Clifford, gent.

2. James Jones Mychell of Whitney.

GIFT of a house in Whitney where the
said James now dwells, and parts of
an orchard lying next to the parish
church of Whitney.
</div>

== Page 4 ==
<div id="Plaintext">
14. 1556. May 27. 1. Agnes verch John of Byrley, co.,
Hereford, widow.

2. David ap Griffith and Griffith
ap David, his younger son.

QUITCLAIM of messuages and lands,
called <u>tyre Howell ap Richard ap</u>
<u>Adam</u> in the parish of Whitney.

15. 1558. April 20. 1. Robert Vaughan of Wynforton,
co., Hereford, gent.

2. Thomas ap Rees of Clifford and
Joan, his wife.

MORTGAGE of tenements and lands in
Clifford called <u>William Treheyrnes</u>
<u>lands</u>. Consideration: £10.

16. 1559. Dec. 8. 1. James Whytney of Whytney, esq.

2. Thomas Gardener of Whytney, clerk

LEASE for 50 years of a messuage or
tenement in the town of Whytney late
in the tenure of one Thomas Here,
deceased.

17. 1576. Sept.8. 1. Ann ap [sic] John, widow, late
wife of James ap John of Whitney,
deceased, and ThomasJames, son
and heir of the said James and Ann.

2. Charles Gravener and Thomas
Gravener.

BARGAIN & SALE of five closes of land
containing 30 acres and one meadow
containing one acre called Halfilde,
otherwise Halhyde in the parish of
Whitney. Consideration : L50.

18. 1576. Oct.16. 1. Ann ap John [<u>sic</u>], widow, late
wife of James ap John Whitney,
deceased, and thomas ap James,
son of the said James and Ann.

2. Charles Gravener and Thomas
Gravener.

QUITCLAIM of fice closes of land
containing 30 acres and one meadow
containing one acre called <u>Halfilde</u>,
otherwise <u>Halhyde</u> in Whitney.

19. 1581. April 27. 1. Sir James Whitney, Kt, Lord of
Whytney.

2. Hugh ap John Howell of Pont Vayne,
of Hereford, husbandsman and
Thomas ap Hugh and James ap Hugh,
sons of the said Hugh ap John and
Catherine verch Rosser, his wife.

LEASE for three lives of a messuage and
</div>

== Page 5 ==
<div id="Plaintext">
contd/.

19. 1581. April 27. tenement and 10 acres of land in the
fee of Clifford and parish of
Whitney, in a place called the
<u>Woodfilde</u>.

20. 1589. Oct.16. 1. Thomas Griffen, citizen and
clothworker of London, son and
heir of Griffen Davie, late of
Whitney, yeoman, deceased.

2. Davie Griffen of Whitney, yeoman.

QUITCLAIM of messuages, lands and
tenements in the town, parish and
fields of Whitney.

21. 1598. Aug. 1. 1. Griffith ap Thomas of Stowe, co
Hereford, yeoman, Golley, his
wife, and Elizabeth James of
the Stowe, widow.

2. Eustace Whitney of Whitney, esq.

MORTGAGE of messuages, tenements and
lands in the Stowe in the parish of
Whitney, excepting one cottage with
a close adjoining called <u>Close y Vallen</u>
Consideration : £43.

22. 1598. Aug.1. Duplicate of No. 21.

23. 1598. Sept. 10. 1. Charles Gravener of Whitney,
joiner, and Thomas Gravener of
Whitney, husbandman.

2. Richard Jones of Eardisley, glover.

MORTGAGE of the moiety of five closes
of land containing 30 acres and the
moiety of one meadow containing one
acre, which said closes and meadow
called <u>Halefield</u>, otherwise <u>Halehide</u>
in the parish of Whitney.

24. 1598/9. Jan 16. 1. Thomas Gravener of the parish of
Whitney, husbandman and Charles
Gravener of the same, joiner

2. Robert Duppa of Whitney, gent.

BARGAIN & SALE of the moiety of five
closes of land containing 30 acres,
and the moiety of a meadow containing
one acre, which said closes and
meadow are called <u>Halefielde</u>, alias
<u>Halehide</u>, in Whitney.
Consideration : £20.
</div>

== Page 6 ==
<div id="Plaintext">
25. 1598/9. Feb. 2. 1. John Hall of Milhalf, co.
Hereford, yeoman

2. Thomas Probert of Woodseves, co.
Hereford, yeoman.

LEASE for 6 years of a close of land
called <u>Close Kennall</u> divided into two
parts by a hedge having a wood called
the <u>Welsh Wood</u> on the north end and
a close of the said John Hall’s
called <u>lline Stockings</u> on the south
end, and another close of the said
John Hall’s on the east side called
the <u>furthest close,</u> lying in Milhalf
in the parish of Whitney.

26. 1600. Oct. 10. 1. Charles Gravener of Whitney,
yeoman.

2. Richard Jones of Erdysley, yeoman.

QUITCLAIM of 6 closes and one meadow
called <u>Halefilde,</u> alias <u>Halehide</u>
in the parish of Whitney.

27. 1600. Oct. 10. 1. Charles Gravener of Whitney,
yeoman.

2. Richard Jones of Erdisley, co.
Hereford, yeoman.

BOND in £200 for the conveyance of
five closes of land and one meadow
called <u>Helefield</u> alias, <u>Halehide</u>
in the parish of Whitney.

28. 1602. June 28. 1. John Hall of Millhalfe in the
parish of Whitney, yeoman, and
Jane, his wife.

2. Charles Weaste of the same, yeoman.

LEASE for 1000 years of a close of
arable land called the <u>Close Pells</u>
in the parish of Whitney.

29. 1603. April 27. 1. Charles Gravener of Eardesley,
joiner, and Richard Johnes of the
same, glover.

2. Eustace Whitney of Whitney, esq.

BARGAIN & SALE of 5 closes and one meadow
called <u>Halefield</u>, alias <u>Halehide</u>
in Whitney.
Consideration : £80

30. 1603. April 27. Counterpart of No. 29.
</div>

== Page 7 ==
<div id="Plaintext">
31. 1603. April 27. 1. Richard Johnes of Eardesley,
co. Hereford, glover.

2. Eustace Whitney, of Whitney, esq.

BOND in £80 for the performance of
convenants contained in a pair of
indentures of equal date.

32. 1604. Nov. 9. 1. Griffith Thomas, alias Griffith
of Thomas of Stowe in the parish
of Whitney, yeoman.

2. Eustace Whitney, of Whitney, esq.

QUITCLAIM of a messuage, tenement and
lands in Stowe in the parish of
Whitney.

33. 1605/6. Feb. 21, 1. Eustace Whitney, of Whitney, esq.

2. John Hall and Jane, his wife.

LEASE for lives of a messuage,
tenement and lands in Whitney which
the said Eustace Whitney purchased
from the said John Hall.

34. 1605/6. Feb. 20. 1. John Hall of Whitney, yeoman.

2. Eustace Whitney, esq.

BOND in £200 for the performance of
convenants contained in a pair of
indentures of equal date.

35. 1614. May 24. 1. David Griffith of Whitney, yeoman,
and Margaret, his wife.

2. Sir Robert Whitney of Whitney, Kt.

BARGAIN & SALE of a messuage or
tenement and lands called <u>Howel ap</u>
<u>Richard ap Adam’s lands</u> in the lordship
of Whitney; also lands called <u>Kay yr</u>
<u>Gove</u> in Whitney Wood.
Consideration : £120.

36. 1614. May 24. 1. David Griffith of Whitney, yeoman.

2. Sir Robert Whitney of Whitney, Kt.

BOND in £240 to levy a fine of the
premises mentioned in No. 35.

37. 1614. June 2. WARRANT OF ATTORNEY from Sir Robert
Whitney of Whitney, Kt., to James Goze
to receive possession of certain lands
specified in a deed dated 24 May, 1614.
</div>

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<div id="Plaintext">
54. 1633. April 24. 1. Eustace Jone of Whitney, gent.
2. [[Family:Whitney, Robert (1592-1653)|Sir Robert Whitney of Whitney , Kt.]]

QUITCLAIM of one close of pasture or
meadow called Gundon or Rushie
medowe in Whitney.

55. 1633/34. Feb. 3. 1. William Thomas of Milhaughe in
the parish of Whitney , miller.

2. [[Family:Whitney, Robert (1592-1653)|Sir Robert Whitney of Whitney , Kt.]]

QUITCLAIM of a parcel or arable
land containing one acre called
Brooke acre, lying in a field called
le Upper Pyrry hill in the parish of
Whitney.

56. 1634. June 26. 1. Eustace Jones of Whitney, gent.

2. [[Family:Whitney, Robert (1592-1653)|Sir Robert Whitney, Kt.]], chief
lord of the manor and lordship
of Whitney.

QUITCLAIM of a parcel of land
containing 8 acres , part of a
common or wood called Whitney in the
lordship and parish of Whitney which
said parcel was allotted to the said
Eustace under an agreement made
between the said [[Family:Whitney, Robert (1592-1653)|Sir Robert]] and the
tenants of the said manor for the
enclosure of the said common.

57. 1635. June 27. RECEIPT from Thomas jones of the
parish Brilley, co., Hereford,
yeoman, John Williams of Abergevenny,
co., Monmouth, corviser, and
Abraham Williams, son of the said
John, corviser to [[Family:Whitney, Robert (1592-1653)|Sir Robert Whitney]]
of Whitney Court, Kt., for *16
payable to them for a house or
tenement and lands in Whittneises
Wood in the parish of Whitney.

58. 1635. June 27 1. Thomas Jones of the parish of
Brilley, co., Hereford , yeoman,
John Williams of Abergevenny, co.,
Monmouth, corvisor, and Abraham
Williams, son of the said John
Williams, corvisor.

2. [[Family:Whitney, Robert (1592-1653)|Sir Robert Whitney of Whitney]]
[[Family:Whitney, Robert (1592-1653)|Court, Kt.]]

QUITCLAIM of a dwelling house or
tenement and a close of land in the
parish of whitney

59. 1639. May 28. 1. Joanna Price of the parish of
Brongwenne, co., Radnor, widow,
sister and heiress of John
Phillpotte, citizen and merchant
tailor of London.
</div>

== Page 12 ==
<div id="Plaintext">
contd/.

59. 1639. May 28 2. [[Family:Whitney, Robert (1592-1653)|Sir Robert Whitney of Whitney, Kt.]]

BOND in *84 for the performance of
cevenants contained in a pair of
indentures of equal date.

60. 1645. June 20. 1. [[Family:Whitney, Robert (1592-1653)|Sir Robert Whitney of Whitney,]]
Kt., lord of the manor of Whitney,
and Robert Whitney, esq., his son
and heir.

2. John West of Whitney, yeoman, one
of the freeholders of the said
manor , and a commoner in the
waste and wood ground there called
Whitney's Wood.

LEASE for 99 years of part of the
said common, waste and wood ground as
is now in the possession of the said
John West being the uttermost part
of the said wood on the east and
north parts, and adjoining on the
same sides a brook called Heybrooke
and the highway there.

61. 1693. May 23. 1. John Tryst of the city of Hereford,
esq., Thomas Geers of the Marsh,
co., Hereford, serjeantt-at-law,
and elizabeth, his wife, Robert
Duppa of Castleton, co., Hereford,
gent, and elizabeth, his wife,
John Duton Colt of leominster,
esq., robert Price of Foxley, esq.
Thomas Williams of Cabalva, co.,
Radnor , esq., David Williams of
the city of Hereford, doctor in
physic, and Thomas Stanley of
the same , gent.

2. William Wardour of the city of
Westminister, esq.

BARGAIN & SALE of a messuage of
tenement in Whitney, two closes
called Great Rownslow and Little
Rownslow, a meadow called the Roks
Meadow and other parcels of land in
Whitney.
Consideration : *300

62. 1717. June 18. 1. William Wardour, esq., lord of
the manor of Whitney.

2. Albert Randall, alias Harman
one of the cottages in the said
manor.

LEASE for 99 years of a cottage
where the said Albert now dwells in
the manor of Whitney.

63. 1717. June 20. 1. William Wardour , esq., lord of
the manor of whitney.

2. Susan Williams; one of the
cottagers in the said manor.
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63. 1717. June 20. LEASE for 99 years of a cottage
where the said Susan now lives
in the manor of Whitney.

64. 1717. June 20. 1. William Wardour , esq., lord of
the manor of Whitney.

2. Susan Williams , one of the
cottagers in the said manor.

LEASE for 99 years of the cottage
where the aid susan now dwells in
the manor of Whitney.

65. 1729. Sept. 26 1. William Wardour of the city of
Westminister, esq.

2. Thomas Hancorn of the Millhaugh
in the parish of Whitney, gent.

DEED OF EXCHANGE of a parcel of
arable land containing one acre
near the dwelling house of the said
Thomas Hancorn and another parcel of
land containing one acre (W.W.) for
the right to erect weirs and dams by
the said William wardour on the lands
of the said hancorn at the Millhaugh.

66. 1749. May 15. 1. Tomkyns Wardour of Hillington
Heath, co., Middlesex, esq.

2. Uvedale Price of the city of
Bath, esq., and Robert Price of
Foxley, co., Hereford, esq.

DEED OF EXCHANGE ENROLLED of a
messuage or farm called Hucks farm
in the village of Yarsop in the
parish of Yazor, co., Hereford (T.W.)
for a messuage , tenement and farm
at the Millhaugh in the parish of
Whitney ( U.P. and R.P.)

67. 1758. March 17. 1. Elizabeth Wardour of Hillington,
co., Middlesex, widow, lady of
the manor of Whitney, co., Hereford

2. William Bayles of Whitney,
yeoman.

LEASE for 99 years of a cottage and
land in Whitney.

68. 1758. March 27. 1. Elizabeth Wardour of Hillington
Heath co., Middlesex, widow.

2. Thomas Jones of Whitney, co.,
Hereford, yeoman.

LEASE for 17 years of a dwelling house
where the said Thomas Jones now lives,
called the Boat house on Whitney
Green, together with other parcels of
land on whitney Green in the parish
of whitney.
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69. 1763. March 5. 1. Edward Allen of Hay, co., Brecon,
gent.

2. Thomas Price of the parish of
Whitney, yeoman.

LEASE for 99 years of a piece of
arable land near whitney's Green
adjoining the common ground there;
also, for 21 years , of a meadow in
the parish of Whitney.

70. 1764. March 17. 1. Elizabeth Wardour, lady of the
manor of Whitney.

2. John Richards of Whitney,
labourer.

COUNTERPART LEASE for three lives of
a cottage and land at the Millhaugh
in the parish of Whitney.

71. 1775. April 1. 1. John Stallard of Hardwicke, in
the parish of Clifford, gent.,
(agent and steward of Mrs. Mary
Bourne respecting her manors
and estates in the co., of
Heresford.)

2. Charles Haywoood of Clifford
and Richard Farr now or late
of Almely, co., Hereford, timber
merchant.

AGREEMENT for the sale of 600 tons
of oak, from trees growing in
Whitney Wood.

72. 1780. Jan 10. 1. Tomkyns Dew , esq., lord of the
manor of Whitney.

2. James Mathes of whitney,
carpenter.

COUNTERPART LEASE for 21 years of a
cottage , garden and two plocks of
ground in Whitney.

73. 1780. July 17. 1. Tomkyns Dew of Whitney, esq.

2. Sarah Treson of Whitney, spinster.

LEASE for 21 years of a messuage or
dwelling house called Whitney Court
or the New House.

74. 1780. July 17. COUNTERPART of No. 73.
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75. 1780. Aug. 27. 1. Tomkyns Dew, esq., lord of
the manor of Whitney.

2. Elizabeth Lewis , spinster of
Whitney.

LEASE for 21 years of a cottage ,
garden and two plocks of ground
situate at a place called the
Woodgate in Whitney.

76. 1780. Aug. 27 1. Tomkyns Dew, esq., lord of the manor
of Whitney.

2. John Evans of Whitney, tailor.

COUNTERPART LEASE for 21 years of a
cottage, garden and orchard at
Whitney Green in the parish of
Whitney.

77. 1780. Aug. 27. 1. Tomkyns Dew, lord of the manor
of Whitney.

2. Elizabeth Lewis of whitney,
spinster.

COUNTERPART LEASE for 21 years of
a cottage and two plocks of grounds
in Whitney.

78. 1782. 1. Charles Haywood of the parish
of Clifford , grazier, and
Tomkyns Dew, esq., his landlord.

2. William Moythan of the parish
of Whitney, yeoman, and Thomas
Morris of the same, yeoman.

LEASE for 15 years of a parcel of
coppice wood in Whitney.

79. 1782. Nov. 1 1. Tomkyns Dew of Whitney , esq.

2. Thomas Weale of whitney, gent.

LEASE for 21 years of an orchard
called the Croft or Tanhouse Close
in the parish of Whitney.

80. 1782. Nov. 9. 1. Tomkyns Dew,esq., lord of the
manor of Whitney.

2. Benjamin Prosser, labourer.

COUNTERPART LEASE of a cottage and
land near the Mill Pound at the
Millhaugh in the parish of Whitney.

81. 1783. June 3. 1. Tomkyns Dew, lord of the manor of
WHITNEY.

2. Thomas Vaughan of Whitney,
labourer.

COUNTERPART LEASE for 21 years of a
cottage formerly Probert's in Whitney
Wood.
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82. 1783. June 6. 1. Tomkyns Dew, lord of the manor
of Whitney.

2. John Powell of Whitney, mason.

COUNTERPART LEASE for 21 years of
a piece of coppice ground and
arable land in Whitney Wood.

83. 1783. July 22. 1. Tomkyns Dew, lord of the manor
of Whitney.

2. William Price, carpenter.

COUNTERPART LEASE for 21 years of
several pieces of land in Whitney.

84. 1783. July 26. 1. Tomkyns Dew, lord of the manor
of Whitney.

2. William Roberts, yeoman.

COUNTERPART LEASE for 21 years of
a piece of coppice in Whitney Wood.

85. 1783. July 26. 1. Tomkyns Dew, lord of the manor
of Whitney.

2. David Morris, yeoman.

COUNTERPART LEASE for 21 years of
two acres and a half of coppice
wood in Whitney manor.

86. 1783. July 30. 1. Tomkyns Dew, lord of the manor
of Whitney.

2. Thomas Baylis of Whitney,
labourer.

COUNTERPART LEASE for 21 years of
four acres of land in Whitney Wood
and a cottage and land at Pentwyne
in Whitney.

87. 1783. July 30. 1. Tomkyns Dew, lord of the manor
of Whitney.

2. John Roberts of Whitney, labourer.

COUNTERPART LEASE for 21 years of
cottage and land in Whitney.

88. 1783. July 30. 1. Tomkyns Dew, lord of the manor
of Whitney.

2. John Baylis, labourer.

COUNTERPART LEASE for 21 years
5 acres of land in Whitney.
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89. 1783. Nov. 14. 1. Tomkyns Dew, of Whitney. Esq.

2. James Johnes of Clirow, co.,
Rednor, builder.

LEASE for 21 years of three closes
called the Fignesses, Walton’s
Close, and Wye Meadow together
with 4 acres of coppice, part of
Whitney Wood.

90. 1784. March 23. 1. Tomkyns Dew, lord of the manor
of Whitney.

2. Edward Dale of Whitney, labourer.

COUNTERPART LEASE for 21 years of
a piece of garden ground in Whitney.

91. 1784. July 22. 1. Charles Haywood of the
Sheepcott in the parish of
Clifford, gent.

2. Tomkyns Dew of Whitney Court,
esq.

LEASE for 21 years of lands called
the Gunden, Cranks Orchard and the
Little Orchard, etc., in Whitney.

92. 1786. Dec 21. 1. Tomkyns Dew, lord of the manor
of Whitney.

2. Thomas Price of Whitney, weaver.

LEASE for 21 years of a cottage and
land, part of Grave’s End in
Whitney Wood.

93. 1786. Dec. 21. 1. Tomkyns Dew, esq., lord of the
manor of Whitney.

2. Daniel Williams of Brilley,
labourer.

COUNTERPART LEASE for 21 years of
two pieces of land called Wye Meadow
and Walton’s Close near Whitney
Bridge.

94. 1791. Nov. 12. 1. Tomkyns Dew, of Whitney, esq.

2. Thomas Price of Whitney, weaver.

LEASE for 21 years of several pieces
of land in the parish of Whitney.

95. 1791. Nov. 12. 1. Tomkyns Dew, esq., of Whitney
Court.

2. John Spencer of the parish of
Whitney, gent, and Sarah Weale
of the same, widow.

COUNTERPART LEASE for 21 years of an
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95. 1791. Nov. 12. orchard called the Croft or
Tanhouse Close and a meadow
adjoining thereto in the parish of
Whitney.

96. 1792. April 4. CERTIFICATE of an AGREEMENT between
the Commissioners of the Land
Revenue and Tomkyns Dew of Whitney,
esq., for the sale to the latter of
the Crown rents in respect of lands c
called Canon Stocking in Whitney and
other lands in Middlewood.

97. 1792. Sept. 5. 1. Tomkyns Dew, esq. lord of the
manor of Whitney.

2. John Powell of Whitney, mason.

LEASE for 21 years of a piece of
coppice and one acre of pasture
ground of Whitney Wood.

98. 1792. Sept. 5. 1. Tomkyns Dew, esq., lord of the manor
of Whitney.

2. John Powell of Whitney, mason.

COUNTERPART LEASE for 21 years of a
piece of coppice and pasture ground
in Whitney Wood.

99. 1795. Dec. 10. 1. Tomkyns Dew of Whitney Court, esq.

2. Thomas Apperly of Whitney, miller.

COUNTERPART LEASE for 8 years of a
messuage, tenement or dwelling house
where the said Thomas Apperley now
lives, together with the two stacks
of water corn mills consisting of
one wheat mill, one corn mill and one
malt mill, called the Millhaugh Mills
in the parish of Whitney; also
various parcels of land in Whitney
appurtenant to the said mills.

100. 1797. Feb. 2. 1. Tomkyns Dew of Whitney Court, esq.

2. John Spencer of Whitney, gent.

COUNTERPART LEASE for 21 years of a
capital messuage called Sheepcot
in Clifford and lands in Clifford and
Whitney.
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101. 1797. April 4. 1. Tomkyns Dew, esq., of Whitney
Court.

2. Samuel Hancorne of the parish
of Whitney, gent.

COUNTERPART LEASE for 21 years of a
messuage and farm called the Millhalf
Farm situate at the Millhalf in
the parish of Whitney together with
other lands lying in a place called
the Millhaugh in the parish of
Whitney.

102. 1810. May 8. 1. Ann the wife of Thomas Powell,
of Whitney Court in the parish of
Whitney, formerly Ann Dew.

2. The said Thomas Powell.

APPOINTMENT by the said Ann Powell of
£4,150 stock in the £4 per cents and
£200 on Bond to her husband in case
he shall survive her and in default of issue.

103. 1814. Oct. 3. 1. Tomkyns Dew of Whitney Court, esq.

2. Thomas Powell of Field's Place
in the parish of Madley, esq.

COPY GRANT of an Annuity of L400
issuing out of the capital messuage
and lands called Whitney Court.

104. 1805. Jan. 29. 1. Edward Dale of the parish of
Whitney, yeoman.

2. James Spencer of Hay, co., Brecon,
gent.

3. Ann Dew of Whitney Court, widow.

FEOFFMENT of a cottage and parcel of
garden ground in the parish of
Whitney to the use of the said Edward
Dale for life, with remainder to the
said Ann Dew in fee.

105. 1805. Aug. 23. 1. Edward Langford of the parish of
Clifford, gent.

2. John Meredith of the parish of
Clirow, co., Radnor, yeoman.

LEASE for 7 years of seven closes
called the Great and Little Broads
Crofts situate at the Millhaugh in
the parish of Whitney.

106. 1807. Feb. 2. 1. Henry Styleman, esq., Nicholas
Styleman, esq., Thomas Powell,
esq., and An, his wife, late
Ann Dew, widow (guardians of
Tomkyns Dew of Whitney Court,
esq., an infant).
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106. 1807. Feb. 2. 2. Richard Higgins of the parish of
Whitney, gent.

LEASE for 6 years of the messuage or
tenement, farm and lands called
<u>The Stow</u> in the parish of Whitney.

107. 1807. Feb. 2. 1. Henry Styleman, esc., and
Nicholas Styleman, esq., (two of the
guardians of Tomkyns Dew of
Whitney Court, now an infant)

2. Thomas Powell of Whitney Court,
esq.

COUNTERPART LEASE for 6 years of the
capital messuage and demesnes called
<u>Whitney Court</u>.

108. 1813. Sept. 18. 1. William Roberts of the parish
of Whitney, yeoman, and Ann,
his wife.

2. John Bowen of Whitney, carpenter.

3. Tomkyns Dew of Whitney Court, esq.

DEED TO LEAD THE USES OF A FINE of a
messuage or tenement called <u>Paul's</u>
<u>House</u> in the village of Whitney and
three closes of land there.

109. 1815. April 24 1. Tomkyns Dew of Whitney Court,
& 25. esq.

2. John Jones of Skethrog, co.,
Brecon, esq.

LEASE & RELEASE being a Mortgage in
Fee of the manor or lordship of
Whitney, the capital messuage called
<u>Whitney New Court</u>, alias <u>Whitney House</u>,
another dwelling house called <u>Whitney</u>
<u>Old Court</u>, a messuage, farm and lands
called the <u>Stow</u>, a park called
<u>Whitney Park</u>, a messuage, farm and
lands called the <u>Farm House</u>, otherwise
<u>Mill Half</u>, otherwise <u>Millhaugh Farm</u>,
a water corn mill called the <u>Mill</u>
<u>Half</u>, otherwise <u>Millhaugh Mill</u>, a
messuage tenement and lands called
the <u>Boat House Inn Farm</u> and other
parcels of land within the said manor
of Whitney in the parishes of Whitney
and Winforton. Consideration : £3000.
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146. 1828. PARTICULARS of land in Mr [Tomkyns]
Dew's occupation in the parish of
Whitney.

147. 1829. PARTICULARS (names of fields and
acreage) of <u>Stow Farm</u> in Whitney
in the tenancy of J. Monkhouse.

148. [c. 1830] PARTICULARS of lands in the
occupation of Tomkyns Dew, esq.,
in the parish of Whitney.

149. [c. 1830] PARTICULARS of Whitney Court Farm,
Far House Farm, or Millhaugh Farm,
and Boat Farm.

150. [c. 1830] SURVEY and Valuation of the <u>Boat</u>
<u>Farm</u> in the tenancy of Stephen
Arrowsmith.

151. 1831. AN ASSESSMENT of four pence in the
pound on the occupiers of premises
and lands in the parish of Whitney
for the relief of the poor.

152. 1832 ACREAGE of Sheep Cot Farm in the
tenancy of Thomas Dowle.

163. [c. 1836] PARTICULARS of land in the Sheep
Cot Farm, not part of the original
estate, but bought by Mr. Dew.

154. 1831. PARTICULARS of an Exchange of lands
between Tomkyns Dew, esq., of
Whitney Court and Mr. John Hancorn
of the Mill Half in the parish of
Whitney.

155. [a. 1840] VALUATION of furniture in the house
at the Mill Half in the parish of
Whitney.

156. [c. 1840] PARTICULARS of lands in the parish
of Whitney not belonging to Mr.
[Tomkyns] Dew

157. 1874. MEASUREMENT of various fisheries
[on the River Wye] in the parish of
Whitney.
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(v) <u>Maps and Plans.</u>

158. 1783. MAP of the Carrier Farm in the parish
of Whitney surveyed by Edward Penry,
1783.

159. [c. 1820] COLOURED sketch and plan of a
Tollhouse in [? Whitney]

160. [c. 1820] MAP of Broad Meadow or Urchinfield
Farm.

161. 1833. MAP of lands, late Thomas Jenkins's
part of Clock Mile Farm purchased
by Tomkyns Dew, esq., in 1833.

(iv) <u>Miscellaneous.</u>

162. 1813. AN ACT for inclosing lands in the
manor and parish of Whitney.
(Printed).

163. 1814. Dec. 21. NOTICES from Catherine Hancorn to
the Rev. John Trumper and Francis
Trumper restraining them from
entering any of her lands in the
parish of Whitney for the purpose
of hunting, coursing or shooting, etc.

164. 1814. Dec. 23. A similar notice from John Monkhouse
to the Rev. John Trumper of Whitney.

165. 1814. Dec. 23. A similar notice from the said
John Monkhouse to Francis Trumper
of Whitney.

166. 1817. Jan. 10. COPIES of notices from Edward Thomas,
John Monkhouse, Tomkyns Dew, John
Spencer, Stephen Arrowsmith, Thomas
Price, and Catherine Hancorn to
William Parry of Bromage, restraining
him from hunting, shooting or
fishing on their lands in the Parish
of Whitney.

167. 1817. Feb. 28. DEPOSITION of Laurence Goodman
concerning his apprehension of one
Thomas Nixon accused of poaching in
Whitney Woods.

168. 1817. March 1. WARRANT to levy by distress of the
goods of Thomas Nixon of the parish
of Whitney the sum of ₤5, being a
fine imposed on him for having in
his possession "an engine called a
snare".
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169. 1820. ACCOUNT of the sale to Tomkyns Dew,
esq., of the Green Estate in Whitney.

170. 1822. ACCOUNTS concerning the purchase by
Tomkyns Dew, esq., of <u>Michael's</u>
<u>Tenement</u> in Whitney.

171. 1826. CASE and opinion concerning the right
of A.W. Higgins to shoot upon land
belonging to Tomkyns Dews, esq.,
within the manor of Whitney.

172. 1827. SCHEDULE of Deeds relating to the
Title to the Whitney Court Estate
belonging to Tomkyns Dew, esq.,
part whereof is now in mortgage to
John Wallis, esq., Hannibal Sandys,
esq., and the Rev. John Wallis for
securing ₤7,000 and interest.

173. 1828. July 4. NOTICE OF APPEAL by Richard Higgins
of the parish of Whitney against an
Assessment made for the relief of
the poor of the said parish, 6 May,
1828.

174-176. 1836. AFFIDAVITS of William Higgins of Hay,
Thomas Richards Watkins of Hereford,
Edward Flowers of Rose, Thomas
Hancorn of Whitney and John Colley
of Whitney on behalf of Richard
Higgins of Hay, co., Brecon,
defendant in an action brought
against him in the King's Bench by
the King on the prosecution of John
Monkhouse, concerning the alleged
obstruction by the said R.H. of the
highway in the parish of Whitney
leading towards the town of Kingston.

177. 1836. Jan 7. AFFIDAVITS of William Higgins of Hay,
co., Brecon, gent, Peter Warburton
of Hereford, gent., Edward Flowers
of Ross, land surveyor, Edward
Powell of Hagley, co., Worcester,
land surveyor John Millward of Hay,
land surveyor, Washington Boultbee of
Birmingham, land surveyor, and Walter
Powell of the parish of Brilley, co.,
Hereford, freeholder, on behalf of
Richard Higgins late of the parish of
Whitney, gent, against whom a Bill of
Indictment was preferred in October,
1834 on a charge of having obstructed
the King's highway in the parish of
Whitney by erecting a fence or hedge
across the said highway.
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178. 1840. Oct. 12. MEMORANDUM of an Agreement made
between Tomkyns Dew, esq., of
Whitney Court, and William Dyke
of Valet Cottage, Whitney, for the
exclusive right to sport over the
land occupied, by him and Mr. Thomas
Morgan of Mill-Half as tenants of
Mr. Thomas Hancorn during the
current season.

179. 1882. June 17. TERMS OF SETTLEMENT of a dispute
between Tomkyns Dew, esq., and one
Mr. Reynolds concerning the Pound in
Whitney.

180. [19th cent.] CASE and Counsel’s Opinion touching a
dispute between Tomkyns Dew of
Whitney Court, esq., (as lessee under
the Rev. I. F. Stewart, rector of
the parish of Whitney, of the tithes
of the said parish) and Richard
Higgins of Whitney, farmer,
concerning certain tithes of turnips
claimed by the said Dew from the said
Higgins
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II <u>MANOR AND PARISH OF CLIFFORD.</u>

(i) <u>Deeds and allied documents.</u>

181. 1339. April 10. 1. John, son of William Stephen of St. Marychurch.

2. Philip Mathew.

GIFT of two acres of land in the
fee of the priory of Clifford, lying
there between <u>Wyrristockynge</u> of the
one part and <u>le Maplenripple</u> (?) of
the other part.

182. 1356. May 4. 1. William Oldacre of Clifford and
Cecily, his wife.

2. Hugh de Hergast.

GIFT of one acre of land in the
lordship of Clifford, lying in a
place called <u>Caldewalleforlong</u>
between the lands of the said Hugh
on both sides and extending from the
lands of the said Hugh to the highway.

183. 1361 1. Thomas le hore of Clifford and
Thomasine, his wife.

2. Thomesine Wodelef of Greadas

GIFT of one piece of arable land in
a field called <u>le Walsshemannesfelde</u>
in Clifford.

184. 1370. 1. William Lydon, chaplain, Robert
Waters, Chaplain, Rees ap David,
John Parpoynct (?) and John Water.

2. William Jonett and Joanna, his wife.

GIFT of lands and tenements late of
Hugh Hergast in the lordship of
Clifford. Monday after the Feast
of the Translation of St. Thomas of
Hereford (Oct. 2)

185. 1374. 1. Roger Gosmerton.

2. William Jonet and; Joanna, his
wife.

QUITCLAIM of lands and tenements in
the manor of Clifford.

Sunday after the Feast of St. Mary
Magdalen (July 22).
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186. 1387. 1. Andrew Boffard of Clifford.

2. William Hugyns of Clifford.

GIFT of two acres of arable land and a
tenement in the fee of Clifford.
Sunday after Ascension Day.

187. 1387. 1. Richard Tylly and Isabel, his wife.

2. John, younger son of Richard
Palmer and Agnes, his wife.

GIFT of lands and tenements
(unspecified) in Castelton in the
manor of Acle Pychard with reversion
to the said Richard and Isabel if
the said John and Agnes die without
heirs.

Sunday before the Feast of the
Apostles Philip and James (May 1).

188. 1393/4. March 12.1. William Hugyn of Clifford.

2. Margaret, his wife, and Robert,
his son.

SETTLEMENT of lands and tenements in
the fee of St. Marychurch held of
the lord prior of Clifford.

189. 1394. 1. Dionysis Wodeleof.

2. John and William, sons of the above.

GIFT of four strips of land lying in
a field called <u>Walssmonneffeld</u> in
the fee amd manor of Clifford.

190. [n.d.- ? late 1. Margery, daughter of William
14th cent.] de Bois.

2. Hugh Pithard.

Gift of 36 acres of land which Simon
de Delewyn and Margery, his wife,
held in the township of Clifford.

191. [n.d.- ? 14th 1. Llewelyn ap Llowarch
cent.?]
2. Hugh, son of David de Hergast.

QUITCLAIM of land called <u>Welshman's</u>
<u>land</u> in the lordship of Clifford.
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192. [n.d. - ? late 1. Richard Ball, son of Thomas
14th cent.] Ball.

2. Hugh son of Dance (?) of Hergast.

GIFT of a mesauage and house in
the township of Clifford.

193. [n.d. - ? late 1. Madoc ap Maredut of Eluael.

14th cent.] 2. Hugh ap David of Hergast.

GIFT of three acres of land lying
in a field called <u>Walismonsfellde</u>
in the fee of Clifford.

194. 1400. 1. John Maddeley and William
Maddeley of Clifford.

2. Edward Jonet, John Jonet,
William Jackesone, Hugh Harper,
clerk and William Harper.

GIFT of one messuage in the township
of Clifford.

Tuesday before Trinity Sunday.

195. 1408. 1. Andrew Buffard and Richard
Oldacre of Clifford.

2. Roger Restell of Clifford.

GIFT of one acre of arable land
lying in "le home" of Clifford in
a field called <u>Bondefelde</u> between
the lord's land of the one part and
the land of John Madley of the other
part, and extending from the field
called Hobynsley to "le bonde
ryppell".

Sunday after the Feast of the
Annunciation of the B.V.M. (25 March)

196. 1425. 1. Sir Robert Whitney, Kt.

2. Miles Water of Clifford, esq.

GIFT of a meadow called <u>Bruttismedow</u>
in the lordship of Clifford lying
between the said Sir Robert's meadow
called <u>litilstenry medow</u> on the one
side and a certain way leading from
Clifford towards the Wye (Wayam)
where there was a ferry, on the
other side, in breadth, and extending
in length from a meadow of the lord
of Clifford called <u>fflagges</u> towards
a pasture of the said Sir Robert's
near the Wye.

Friday before the Feast of the
Nativity of the B.V.M. (Sept.8)
</div>

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<div id="Plaintext">
207. 1499/1500. Jan.15. 1. Jevan ap Gwilym Vaughan, esq.

2. John Lyngen, esq., and Eleanor,
his wife.

QUITCLAIM of messuages, lands and
tenements in the township and
lordship of Clifford which John
Milewater, sometime of Stoke Edith,
co. Hereford, esq., purchased.

208. 1512. Sept. 28. 1. Richard Welford, Robert
Whitney, son of Robert Whitney,
esq., deceased; William
Wallewyn and Thomas ap Jenkyn.

2. Simon Milborn, esq., John
Breynton and Thomas Cockes.

GIFT of messuages, lands and
tenements in the township of
Clifford. Recites that the said
lands were part of an estate in the
township and lordship of Clifford
purchased by John Milewater, esq.,
formerly of Stoke Edith, co.
Hereford, and of which the said
Richard Welford and the other
parties of the first part were made
feoffees by Sir John Lyngeyn and
Eleanor, his wife, daughter and
heiress of Thomas Milewater,
deceased, to the use of William
Herbert, esq.

209. 1538. Oct. 21. 1. Robert Whitney, esq., lord of
Whitney.

2. Hugh ap John Thomas, Margaret
verch Howell, his wife, and
William one of their children.

LEASE for lives of a parcel of land
called <u>the greate tonne,</u> belonging
to the nether court of Clifford,
and to a close called <u>the old close</u>
lying on the north side of the park
of Clifford.

210. 1539. Sept. 30. 1. Robert Whitney of Ickombe, co.
Gloucester, esq.

2. William Treherne of Clyfford,
co. Hereford, yeoman.

LEASE for 99 years of two closes in
Clyfford, lying by the church side,
and 10 acres called the <u>Westfylde</u>
and 22 acres called the <u>Vycars</u>
<u>fylde</u> in the lordship of Clyfford.
</div>

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211. 1544. Nov. 26. 1. John Bedowe of Clifford, Gent.

2. Richard Whitney and Jenkyn
Havard, Gent.

SETTLEMENT of messuages, lands and
tenements in Clifford which formerly
belonged to Howel ap Ievan.

212. 1546. Sept. 26. 1. Charles Herbert, Esq.

2. Eleanor Warmecombe, late wife
of Simon Hyatt, gent., deceased.

QUITCLAIM of all the lands and
tenements late of the said Simon
Hyatt, in Clifford.

213. 1547/8. March 24. 1. Dame Blanche Herbert, widow,
late wife of Sir William Herbert,
late of Troy, Knt., deceased,
and formerly wife of [[Family:Whitney, James (s1466-1500)|James]]
[[Family:Whitney, James (s1466-1500)|Whitney, esq.]], deceased.

2. [[Family:Whitney, Robert (s1491-1541)|Robert Whitney, esq.]]

[[Archive:Whitney and Clifford Manuscript, 213|ASSIGNMENT]] of a lease of the
demesne lands of Clifford, formerly
granted to the said James Whitney
by Prince Arthur, late eldest son
of King Henry VII, for 60 years,
20 Feb. 1496/7.

214. 1567. July 20. 1. Robert Vaughan of Wynforton,
co. Hereford, esq.

2. David ap Rees of Stretton, co.
Hereford.

BARGAIN & SALE of a messuage or
tenement and 8 acres of arable land
in Clyfford now in the tenure of
Thomas ap Rees and known as <u>William</u>
<u>Trehayrons land.</u>

215. 1567/8. Feb.22. 1. John Bedo of Clyfford, gent.,
John William Bedo, son and heir
of William John Bedo, deceased
and Margaret verch Ievan, late
wife of the said William John
Bedo, deceased, of Clyfford,
widow.

2. John Duppa of Whytney, gent.

MORTGAGE of 8 acres of land in the
lordship of Clyfford, lying in a
field called <u>the moore fylde</u> (?)
in a field called <u>Kabalva,</u> and in a
field called the <u>mydle filde;</u> also
one acre of meadow land lying in a
place called <u>Monke Pole.</u>
Consideration : 20 marks.
</div>

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<div id="Plaintext">
238. 1615/6, Feb. 15. 1. Sir Robert Whitney of Whitney, Kt
Edward Bullestrod of the Inner
Temple, esq. and Anthony Bull,
servant to James Whitlocke of
the Middle Temple, esq.

2. Lady Constance Lucy of Highcleere,
co., Southampton, widow, and
Richard Lucy, her son and heir.

BARGAIN & SALE of the castle manor
and park of Clifford. Consideration
£2,000.

239. 1617. May 7. 1. Richard Lucy, esq., son of the
Lady Constance Lucy of
Highcleere, co., Southampton,
widow.

2. The said Lady Constance Lucy.

QUITCLAIM of the manor, castle and
park of Clifford.

240. 1618. Oct. 14. 1. Lady Constance Lucy of Highclere,
co., Southampton, widow.

2. Sir Robert Whitney of Whitney,
Kt.

3. William Allen of London, esq.,
and Richard Knightley of
Preston Capes, co.,
Northampton, esq.

SETTLEMENT of the manor, castle and
park of Clifford to the use of the
said Sir Robert Whitney and Lady
Anne, his wife (daughter of the said
Lady Constance Lucy) with remainder
to their son Robert Whitney and his
heirs male, and in deault thereof,
to the use of the other heirs male
of the said Sir Robert Whitney and
Lady Anne Whitney.

241. 1618. Nov. 14. 1. Eustace Jones of the parish of
Whitney, gent., Elizabeth, his
wife, and Robert Jones his son
and heir.

2. Sir Robert Whitney of Whitney
Court, Kt.

QUITCLAIM of a close in the parish
of Llannevaire y brynne, otherwise
Clifford.

242. 1625/6 March 8. 1. Lady Constance Lucy of Highclere, d
co., Southampton, widow.

2. Sir Robert Whitney of Whitney, Kt.

3. William Allen of London, esq.,
and Richard Knightley of Preston
Capes, co., Northampton, esq.
</div>

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contd/.

242. 1625/6 March 8. COVENANT TO STAND SEISED TO USES
of the manor of Clifford, the
park called Clifford Park and
lands in Clifford except Clifford
Castle and the Castle Green ---
in consideration of a marriage
already had between the said
Sir Robert Whitney and the Lady
Anne, his wife, daughter of the
said Lady Constance.

243. 1628/9. Feb. 4. 1. John Vaughan of Courtefeelde
in the parish of Biggnor, co.,
Monmouth, esq.

2. John Eustace of the parish of
Clifford, yeoman.

LEASE for 21 years of a messuage or
tenement in St. Mary Hill within the
priory fee of the Blessed Virgin
Mary in Clifford.

244. 1630. April 24. 1. John Vaughan of Courtfield, co.,
Monmouth, esq.

2. James Rosser of Clifford,
yeoman.

LEASE for 21 years of a messuage and
lands called the Kyver, the Bromy
Close, Parva Pella, the Well Meadow
the Poole meadow, the Plock upon
Wyeside, the over close, the close
by John Tyler's house and Maes y
Parke yssa, all in the parish of
Clifford, alias Llanvayr y Bryn.

245. 1630. July 10. RECEIPT from Thomas Prosser John
Howell of Clifford, yeoman, and
James Prosser, his son and heir,
to Sir Robert Whitney of Whitney
Court, Kt., and for £17 for a house,
barn and lands in Clifford.

246. 1630/1. March 9. 1. Christopher Donne of Clifford, gent.

2. Sir Robert Whitney of Whitney
Court, Kt.

BOND in £30 for the performance of
covenants contained in a pair of
Indentures of equal date.

247. 1631/2. Feb. 10. 1. Eustace * Whitney of Clifford,
gent.

2. Sir Robert Whitney of Whitney
Court, Kt.

BARGAIN & SALE of a meadow called
Closse meadow, containing four acres
in the parish of Llannevaire y
brynne in the fee of Clifford.

Consideration : £46.
</div>

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248. 1631/2. Feb. 10. RECEIPT from Eustace Whitney of
Clifford, gent., to Sir Robert
Whitney of Whitney Court, Kt., for
£46 due for a certain meadow called
Closse meadow in the fee and
precincts of Clifford.

249. 1633/4. Feb. 1. 1. William Thomas of Milhaughe in
the parish of Whitney, miller.

2. Sir Robert Whitney of Whitney,
Kt.

BOND in £18 for the performance of
covenants contained in a pair of
Indentures of Bargain and Sale of
equal date.

250. 1637. Sept. 10. 1. Howell William of the parish of
Clifford, yeoman, Rees Phillips
of Clodocke, co., Hereford,
yeoman, and James Phillips of
Peterchurch, co., Hereford,
yeoman.

2. Sir Robert Whitney, Kt.

BOND in 5300 for the performance of
covenants contained in a pair of
Indentures of equal date.

251. 1637. Nov. 23. 1. Eustace Jones of Whitney, gent.,
Elizabeth, his wife, and Robert
Jones his son and heir.

2. Robert Whitney of Whitney,
Kt., and William Bowdler of
Ludlow, gent.

MORTGAGE of a meadow called
Gossingtons Meadow in the parish
of Cliford. Consideration : £53.

252. 1637/8. Feb. 9. 1. Walter Beddoes of the parish of
Llannevaire y brynne, alias
Clifford, corviser.

2. Sir Robert Whitney, Kt.

BOND in £24 for the performance of
covenants contained in a pair of
Indentures of equal date.

253. 1638/9. Feb. 28. 1. Eustace Jones of the parish of
Whitney and Robert Jones, his
son and h3eir.

2. Sir Robert Whitney of Whitney
Court, Kt.

BOND in £160 for the quiet possession d
of a close of meadow or pasture
called Gossingtons Meadow in the
parish of Llannevaire y brynne, alias
Clifford.
</div>

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254. 1638/9. March 4. 1. Sir Robert Whitney of Whitney,
Kt.

2. William Philip of the parish of
Bettous Clyrowe, co., Radnor,
Yeoman.

LEASE for 6 years of the capital
messuage and appurtenances called
the Lower Courte in Clifford, a
meadow called Poole Meadowe a
parcel of arable land in Clifford
called the Close under the hill
together with cattle, wains, goods
and implements as specified in a
schedule annexed.

255. 1639. March 10. 1. Richard Rogers of London, yeoman.

2. Sir Rober Whitney of Whitney, Kt.

BARGAIN & Sale of a tenement or
cottage and lands in the parish of
Clifford.
(Incomplete)

256. 1639. May 28. 1. Joanna Price of the parish of
Brongwenne, co., Radnor, widow,
sister and heir of John
Phillpotte, citizen and merchant
tailor of London, deceased.

2. Sir Robert Whitney of Whitney,
Kt.

BARGAIN & SALE of a messuage or
tenement and orchard in Clifford
adjoining to the castle there; one
parcel of arable land and one
little garden adjoining thereto,
near adjoining the said messuage,
one parcel of pasture and wood
ground lying in a certain parcel
of ground called the Tonne; and one
parcel of pasture ground ling in a
close called the Broniey close.

Consideration : £42.

257. 1639. May 28. RECEIPT from Joanna Price of
Brongwenne, co., Radnor, widow, to
Sir Robert Whitney of Whitney, Kt.,
for £42 payable to her for one
messuage or tenement in Clifford
containing about 3/4 acre, one
parcel of arable land and one litle
garden adjoining, containing one
acre, a parcel of pasture and woody
ground containing 2 1/2 acres and a
parcel of pasture ground containing
half an acre, and for her right and
title in all other lands in the
parish of Llannevaire y brynne,
alias Clifford.
</div>

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258. 1639. May 28. POWER OF ATTORNEY from Sir Robert
Whitney of Whitney, Kit., to John
Bythell of Whitney, gent., to take
and receive from Joanna Price of
Brongwenne , co., Radnor, widow,
The premises mentioned in No. 257.

259. 1648. April 16. 1. William Bowdler of Ludlow, co.,
Salop.

2. Sir Robert Whitney of Whitney,Kt.

QUITCLAIM of a close of meadow or
pasture called Gossingtons meadow
in the parish of Clifford.

260. 1647. Dec. 10. 1. Sir Richard Lucy of Broxborne,
co., Hertford, Kt., and Bart.

2. Sir Robert Whitney of Whitney,
kt. , Robert Whitney, esq., his
eldest son and heir, Richard
Whitney, gent., Thomas Whitney,
gent., and Francis Whitney,
gent., his younger sons.

DECLARATION & APPOINTMENT touching
The sum of £260 par of a principal
sum of money due for arrears of
rent of Clifford, and £200 due upon
an obligation wherein the said Sir
Robert Whitney and Robert Whitney
stood bound to the said Sir Richard
Lucy. All which the said Sir
Richard does “out of the natural love
and affection which he beareth unto
Dame Anna Whitney, wife of the said
Sir Robert Whitney, his, the said
Sir Richard Lucy’s,dearly beloved
Sister”.

261. 1647/8. Feb. 1. 1. Sir Robert Whitney, Kt.

2. Roger Beynon of the parish of
Clifford, yeoman.

LEASE for 21 years of a house or
cottage, a close of arable land
containing two acres adjoining the
said cottage, another parcel of
arable land containing one ace lying
in a filed called the Upp ffielde
and another parcel of arable land
containing one acre lying in a field
called Byford -- all in the parish
of Clifford.

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262. 1665 April 20.
1. Thomas Whitney of Whitney, esq.,
William, lord bishop of St.
David's and Francis Lucy of
St. Martins in the Fields, co.,
Middlesex, esq.

2. John Booth of the city of
Hereford, esq.

LEASE for 5 years of a farmhouse,
messuage and lands called
Castelton Farm in the parish of
Llanvairyvryn, co., Hereford

263. 1665. April 21.
POWER OF ATTORNEY from Thomas
Whitney of Whitney, esq., William
Lord bishop of St. David and
Francis Lucy of St. Martins in
the Fields, esq., to John Lawrence
of Winserton, co., Hereford, gent.,
and Humphrey Diggas of the city of
Hereford, gent., to deliver the
lease of the premises mentioned in
No. 262 to John Booth.

The Kitchen in Castleton.

264. 1670. April 9.

1. Thomas Nicholas of Castleton
in the parish of Clifford, alias
Llanvaire y Bryne, yeoman.

2. Nicholas Thomas, late of
Castleton, son and heir of the
said Thomas Nicholas.

LEASE for 1000 years of one
"Kichine", one garden and orchard
in Castleton.

265. 1741. March 20.

1. Thomas Morgan of the parish of
Almeley, co., Hereford, weaver,
and William Morgan of the same,
weaver.

2. Zacharias Price of the parish of
Kinnersley, co., Hereford, gent.,

BOND in 60pds for the performance of
covenants contained in a pair of
Indentures of equal date.

266. 1741. Oct. 19 & 20

1. Thomas Griffiths of the parish
of Clifford, yeoman, and Susan,
his wife.

2. Thomas Morgan of the parish of
Almeley, co., Hereford, weaver,
and William Morgan of the same,
weaver, his brother.

LEASE & RELEASE of a messuage or
tenement called the Kitchen with
two gardens and an orchard
adjoining thereto at Castleton
in the parish of Clifford; also
two pieces of arable land lying
in a field called Maes y pont in
the parish of Brynllys, co., Brecon.
</div>

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267. 1741. Oct. 21.
1. Thomas Morgan of the parish of
Almeley, co., Hereford, weaver,
and William Morgan of the same,
weaver.

2. Zacharias Price of the parish
of Kinnersley, co., Hereford,
gent.

LEASE for one year of a messuage
or tenement called the Kitchen at
Castleton in the parish of Clifford.

268. 1741. Oct. 22
1. Thomas Morgan of the parish of
Almeley, co., Hereford, weaver,
and William Morgan of the same,
weaver, his brother.

2. Zacharias Price of the parish
of Kinnersley, co., Hereford,
gent.

MORTGAGE of a messuage or tenement
called the Kitchen together with a
garden and orchard adjoining thereto
at Castleton in the parish of
Clifford. Consideration : 30pds.

269-270. 1748 April 7 & 8
1. Evan Jones of the parish of
Llandiloe, co., Carmarthen,
yeoman.

2. James Brewer of the parish of
Much Dewchurch, co., Hereford,
yeoman, and Eleanor, his wife.

3. Thomas Morgan of the parish of
Clifford, weaver, and William
Morgan of the same, weaver, and
Mary, his wife.

4. Rees Robert of the parish of
Cusop, co., Hereford, tailor.

LEASE & RELEASE of a messuage called
the Kitchen with a garden and orchard
belonging thereto, at Castleton in
the parish of Clifford.

271. 1748. April 8
1. Rees Robert of the parish of
Cusop, co., Hereford, tailor.

2. Thomas Morgan of the parish of
Clifford, weaver, and William
Morgan of the same, weaver.

BOND in 80pds for the redemption of a
mortgage upon a messuage and lands
called the Kitchen at Castleton in
the parish of Clifford.
</div>

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271A. 1767. Sept. 30.

1. Mary Bourne of St. George,
Hanover Square, London, spinster.

2. Thomas Morgan of the parish of
Clifford, weaver.

LEASE for 60 years of a messuage or
tenement called the Kitchen and
appurtenances in Castleton in the
parish of Clifford.

272. 1683. June 23.
1. Nicholas Thomas of the parish
of Clifford, alias Llanvaier
y Bryne, yeoman.

2. Roger Williams of the parish of
Madly, yeoman, and William
Harbarde.

SETTLEMENT (after the marriage of
the said Nicholas and his wife Joan
Thomas) of the said Nicholas's house
called Akarhine and appurtenances in
Castleton in the parish of Clifford.

273. 1748. April 5.
1. Thomas Morgan of the parish of
Clifford, weaver, and William
Morgan of the same, weaver.

2. Rees Robert of the parish of
Cusop, tailor.

AGREEMENT for the conveyance of a
messuage and lands at Castleton in
the parish of Clifford now in
mortgage to James Brewer of the
parish of Much Dewchurch, yeoman,
in consideration of the payment of
40pds.

274. 1748. April 8.
1. Thomas Morgan of the parish of
Clifford, weaver, and William
Morgan of the same, weaver.

2. Rees Robert of the parish of
Cusop, co., Hereford, tailor.

BOND in 80pds for the performance of
covenants contained in an
Indenture Quadrupartite of equal
date.

275. 1759. Aug. 8.
1. Elizabeth Wardour, lady of the
Manor of Clifford.

2. George Knill of Clifford, yeoman.

COUNTERPART LEASE for 99 years of
a cottage near Clifford Castle.

276. 1759. Aug. 8.
1. Elizabeth Wardour, lady of the
manor of Clifford.

2. Joseph Tanner of the Priory
Wood in the parish of Clifford,
yeoman.

LEASE for 99 years of a cottage on
Merback Hill in the parish of Clifford.
</div>

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277. 1759. Aug. 8.
COUNTERPART of No. 276.

278. 1759. Aug. 8.
1. Elizabeth Wardour, lady of
the manor of Clifford.

2. John Jones of Clifford, yeoman.

COUNTERPART LEASE for lives of a
cottage and land near Clifford Park
in the parish of Clifford.

279. 1764. March 17.
1. Elizabeth Wardour, lady of the
manor of Clifford.

2. Thomas Jones of Merbridge Hill,
in the parish of Clifford,
yeoman.

LEASE for three lives of a cottage
on Merbridge Hill in the manor of
Clifford.

280. 1767. July 9.
1. Mary Bourne lady of the manor
of Clifford.

2. John Prosser of Sidcome Hill
in the said manor, tailor.

COUNTERPART LEASE for lives of
three acres of land on Sidcome
Hill in the parish of Clifford.

281. 1777. June 25.
1. Mary Bourne of Lower Grosvenor
Street, London, spinster.

2. John Phillips of Clifford,
shoemaker.

LEASE for 21 years of several
parcels of land lying around
Clifford Castle.

282. 1782. July 9.
1. Tomkyns Dew, esq., lord of the
manor of Clifford.

2. Thomas Powell of Clifford,
labourer.

COUNTERPART LEASE for 21 years of a
cottage, garden and land in
Clifford town.

283. 1782. Oct. 1
1. Tomkyns Dew, esq., lord of the
manor of Clifford.

2. Thomas Tanner of Clifford,
labourer.

COUNTERPART LEASE for 21 years of a
cottage and land on Alt Common in
the manor of Clifford.
</div>

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284. 1784. Sept. 30.
1. Tomkyns Dew, esq., lord of the
manor of Clifford.

2. William Jones of Clifford,
labourer.

COUNTERPART LEASE for 21 years of
a cottage, garden and land called
the Chapple in Clifford town.

285. 1792. Aug. 1.
1. Tomkyns Dew, esq., lord of the
manor of Clifford.

2. Richard Gough of Merbadge Hill
in the said manor, labourer.

COUNTERPART LEASE for 21 years
of a cottage, orchard and land on
Merbadge Hill in the manor of
Clifford.

286. 1795. Oct. 5.
1. Tomkyns Dew, lord of the manor
of Clifford.

2. William Collins of Sidcome
Hill, labourer.

LEASE for 21 years of a cottage and
land on Sidcome Hill in the parish
of Clifford.

287. 1795. Oct. 15.
COUNTERPART of No. 286.

288. 1796. Nov. 6.
1. Tomkyns Dew, esq., lord of the
manor of Clifford.

2. Eneas Walter of the Broadmeadow,
yeoman.

COUNTERPART LEASE for 21 years of
a cottage and land at Broadmeadow
in the manor of Clifford.

289. 1797. Feb. 2.
1. Tomkyns Dew of Whitney Court,
esq.

2. John Spencer of the parish of
Whitney, gent.

COUNTERPART LEASE for 21 years of
the manor or lordship of Clifford,
part of the manor or lordship of
Whitney lying on the Clifford or
south side of the River Wye, the
site of the ancient castle of
Clifford and lands and cottages in
the parish of Clifford.

290. 1797. Feb. 23.
COPY LICENCE from Tomkyns Dew of
Whitney Court, esq., to John Spencer
of Whitney, gent., to plough up and
convert into tillage certain rough
pasture lands called Part of the
Rye grass Piece and Ox Leasow, part
of premises called the Sheepcott
in the parish of Clifford.
</div>

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291. 1804. 1. Henry Syleman, esq., Nicolas
Styleman, esq., and Ann Dew,
widow, guardians of the person
and estate of Tomkyns Dew of
Whitney Court, now an infant.

2. Joseph Browne of Castleton
in the parish of Clifford,
farmer, and James Bonner of
the parish of Linton, farmer.

DRAFT LEASE for 9 years of the
capital messuage, tenement, farm
and lands called <u>Castleton</u> in the
parish of Clifford.

292. 1805. Feb. 2. 1. Henry Styleman, esq., Nicolas
Styleman, esq., and Ann Dew,
widow (guardians of Tomkyns
Dew of Whitney Court, an infant).

2. James Bonner of Castleton in
the parish of Clifford, farmer.

LEASE for 8 years of the capital
messuage, farm and lands called
<u>Castleton</u>, in the parish of Clifford.

293. 1807. Jan. 27. 1. John Spencer of the parish of
Clifford, gent.

2. Jenkin Williams of the parish
of Dorstone, gent.

LEASE for 11 years of stone quarries
on Merbage Hill in the manor and
parish of Clifford.

294. 1813. Oct. 21. 1. Thomas Price of the parish of
Clifford, mason.

2. William Price of the same, mason.

FEOFFMENT of a messuage, cottage
or tenement and lands situated near
Bullens Bank in the parish of
Clifford.

295. 1819. July 16. 1. Thomas Jones of the parish of
Michaelchurch Eskley, co.,
Hereford, farmer, George Lewis
of Hay, co., Brecon, hairdresser
and Sarah Wooding of Hay, widow.

2. John Watkins of the parish of
Cusop, co., Hereford,
inn holder, and Thomas Williams
of Hay, yeoman.

AGREEMENT for the letting of
messuages and lands called <u>The
Green</u> in the parish of Clifford.
</div>

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296. 1820. Jan. 31. AGREEMENT between Tomkyns Dew,
esq., and Charles Davies of
Broadmeadow for the letting of
Urchinfield Farm in the parish
of Clifford.

297. 1821. Jan. 20. ABSTRACT OF CERTIFICATE of the
sale of Chantry lands at Clifford
to Tomkyns Dew, esq.

298. 1821. April 17. 1. William Price of the parish of
Clifford, mason.

2. Tomkyns Dew of Whitney Court,
esq.

MORTGAGE by demise for 500 years of
premises at Bullens BAnk in
Clifford for securing £100 and
interest.

299. 1824. Sept. 29. 1. Tomkyns Dew of Whitney Court,
esq.

2. George Pye of the Sheep Cott
in the parish of Clifford,
farmer.

ARTICLES OF AGREEMENT for the
<u>letting of Sheepcot Farm.</u>

300. 1828. Jan. 1. 1. Tomkyns Dew of Whitney Court
esq.

2. John Williams of the Chapel in
the parish of Betws Cliro, co.,
Radnor, farmer.

AGREEMENT for the letting of a farm
called <u>Ton Farm</u> and other lands
called <u>Tylers Lands, Penogers Lands,</u>
<u>Chantry Lands</u> and <u>Standel Meadow</u> in
the parish of Clifford.

301. 1820. Mar. 2. 1. Rt. Rev. George Isaac, lord
bishop of Hereford.

2. Tomkyns Dew of Whitney Court,
co., Hereford, esq., assignee
of Thomas Powell, late of the
same, esq.

LEASE (COUNTERPART) for 21 years
of the tithes of the village and
township of Castleton, Newton,
Middleton and Westbrook, co.,
Hereford.

302. 1834. Jan. 16. 1. Tomkyns Dew of Whitney Court, esq.

2. George Pritchard of the parish
of Kington, co., Hereford, farmer.

AGREEMENT for the letting of a
messuage, tenement and lands called
<u>OLD CASTLETON HOUSE</u> in the parish of
Clifford.
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303. 1825. Sept. 17.
1. Tomkyns Dew of Whitney Court,
esq.

2. Walter Hill of Winserton.

AGREEMENT for the letting of a
house, buildings and land called
<u>Lockstocks Pool</u> in the parish of Clifford.

304. 1836. Jan. 14.
1. Tomkyns Dew of Whitney Court, esq.

2. Thomas Watkins of the parish of
Clifford, and Samuel Price of
Cliro, co., Radnor.

305. 1838. April 30.
1. Tomkyns Dew of Whitney Court,
esq.

2. Thomas Gough of the parish of
Clifford.

AGREEMENT for the letting of a house
and land on Merbach Hill in the
parish of Clifford.

306. 1840. Nov. 11.
1. Matthew Davies of Tredegar, co.,
Monmouth, miner, and Ann Davies
of Standal House in the parish
of Clifford, widow.

2. Tomkyns Dew of Whitney Court,
esq.

AGREEMENT for the purchase of
<u>The Stocking Farm</u> in the parish of
Clifford and a dwelling house called
the Standale in Clifford.

307. 1840
1. Tomkyns Dew of Whitney Court,
esq.

2. Charles Davies of Broadmeadow,
in the parish of Clifford.

ARTICLES OF AGREEMENT for the letting
of Urchenfield Farm in the parish
of Clifford.

308. 1840 Jan. 15.
1. Tomkyns Dew of Whitney Court,
esq.

2. John Milward of Cwmmerdy, co.,
Radnor, farmer.

AGREEMENT for the lettin gof a
house called the <u>Farm</u> and lands in
the parish of Clifford.

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309. 1840. Jan. 17.
1. Tomkyns Dew of Whitney Court,
esq.

2. Charles Davies of the Broad
Meadow in the parish of Clifford.

AGREEMENT for the letting of a messu-
age, farm and lands called Urchen-
field, in the parish of Clifford.

310. 1842. March 24.
1. Tomkyns Dew, esq.

2. Frances and Richard Jones of
Clifford.

AGREEMENT for the letting of a
tenement and lands called <u>Llangain</U> and <u>Celt</u> situate near Bullen's
Bank in the parish of Clifford.

311. 1842. March 31.
1. Tomkyns Dew of Whitney Court,
esq.

2. Richard Thomas of Harewood in
the parish of Clifford, farmer.

AGREEMENT for the letting of a
parcel of meadow or pasture land
called the <u>Inner Lakes</u> in the parish
of Clifford.

312. 1850. Oct. 11.
1. Tomkyns Dew of Whitney Court, esq.

2. Mary Ann Dickinson of Hereford,
spinster.

AGREEMENT to mortgage the tithes
arising from the <u>Sheepcot Farm</u> and <u>Castleton Farm</u> in the parish of
Clifford, and of the <u>Clifford Castle</u> <u>Lands</u> in the parish of Brilley, for
securing &pound1,500 and interest.

313. 1854. Dec. 13.
1. Tomkyns Dew, of Whitney Court,
esq., and the Rev. Henry Dew of
Whitney Rectory.

2. Thomas Powell of Hardwick in the
parish of Clifford, esq.

BOND in &pound9000 for the payment of an annuity of &pound450 for the life of the
said Thomas Powell.

314. 1855. Aug. 23.
1. William Price of the parish of
Clifford, mason.

2. Tomkyns Dew of Whitney Court, esq.

CONVEYANCE of the Equity of
Redemption in a messuage and two
parcels of land at Bullens Bank in
the parish of Clifford.

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contd/.

321. 1758 Endorsed : "Final Accounts between
Mrs. Wardour and Mr. Hooper to
Michaelmas 1758 when he was
dismissed the stewardship"

322. MANOR OF CLIFFORD : Accounts of
chief rents, heriots, reliefs and
cottage rents received for the years
1797, 1798, 1799 and 1800.

323. do. 1805, 1806, 1807,
1808, 1809, 1810, 1811.

324. do. Chief rents only,
1817.

325. do. do.
1818.

326. do. do. n.d.

327. do. Cottage rents, 1816.

328. do. do. 1818

329. do. Arrears due 1813

330. do. do. 1815

331. do. do. 1815

332. 1797. Oct. 30. SCHEDULE of deeds and writings
relating to the manor of Clifford
delivered by Tomkyns Dew, esq., to
John Spencer of the Sheepcott, to
enable him to hold the Courts Leet
and receive the chief rents of the
said manor which is demised to him
by the said Tomkkyns Dew for 21 years.

333. [18th cent. ] ABSTRACT from the Court rolls of
the manor of Clifford relating to
heriots "at death of Dr. Williams."

334. [18th cent. ] 'PROOFS of Heriots due at the death
of Mr. H. Williams to Mr. Wardour
in Clifford Manor'

335. 1823 - 1883. HONOR AND MANOR OF CLIFFORD : Sundry
Court Leet papers, including : Lists
of Chief Rents due, 1823, 1859, 1864
and 1880; Accounts of a sale under
distress for rent at Green Farm,
Whitney, 1883; etc.
(1 bundle)
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336. 1865 - 1889. ACCOUNT of Charles Griffiths,
steward of the manor of Clifford,
with Tomkyns Dew, esq., lord of
the said manor, for chief rents,
heriots, etc.

337. 1866. Jan. SCHEDULE of documents belonging to
Tomkins Dew, esq. Includes a useful
analysis of two of the Rolls
relating to the manor of Clifford
(Nos. 315 & 316 ).

338. 1866. Jan. COPY of No. 317

339. 1866 - 1889. CLIFFORD MANOR : Accounts of chief
rents, heriots and reliefs paid.

340. 1889. LIST of documents relating to the
manor of Clifford in the possession
of Charles Griffiths, steward of the
said manor, September 7, 1889.

(iii) <u>Surveys, valuations, etc.</u>

341. 1694. ARTICLES to be exhibited at a Court
of Survey to be held 21 May, 1694
for the manor of Clifford.
(Fragment)

342. 1768. MANOR OF CLIFFORD = A Particular of
the Cottage Leases now in being,
1768.

343. 1796. SURVEY of lands in the parish of
Clifford belonging to Mr. William
Haywood, surveyed in 1796.

344. 1796. SURVEY of lands in the parish of
Clifford belonging to Mr. William
Haywood, surveyed in 1796.

345. 1803. PARTICULAR and Valuation of the
Castleton Estate in the parish of
Clifford, the property of Master
Dew, in the occupation of Mr.
Joseph Brown.

346. [c. 1814]. MEASUREMENT of land in the parish
of Clifford the great tithes of
which are the property of T. Powell.

347. 1820. PARTICULARS of Crown lands in
Clifford purchased by Mr. Dew, 1820.

348. [c. 1820]. NOTE of cottage rents unpaid in the
parish of Clifford.
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<div id="Plaintext">
III. <u>MANORS and parishes of WHITNEY and</u>
<u>CLIFFORD (MIXED)</u>

(i) <u>Deeds and allied documents</u>

378. 1617/8. Feb. 17. 1. William Whitney of Mychaell
church, co. Radnor, gent.

2. Sir Robert Whitney of Whitney,Kt.

[[Archive:Whitney and Clifford Manuscript, 378|QUITCLAIM]] of the manor, castle and
park of Clifford, and the manor
and park of Whitney.

379. 1622. Nov. 15. 1. Lacy Constance Lucye of
Highclere, co. Southampton,
widow.

2. Sir Robert Whitney of Whitney,
Kt., and the Lady Anne, his wife,
daughter of the said Lady
Constance Lucye.

AGREEMENT for the levying of the
sum of £2000 towards the marriage
portion of Constance Whitney eldest
daughter of the said Sir Robert
Whitney and Lady Anne, and £1000
apiece towards the marriage portion
of their four other daughters, Lucy,
Anne, Eleanor and Susan Whitney, out
of the rents and profits of the manor
and lordship of Whitney, the manor
and lordship of Clifton-super-
Dunsmore, co Warwick and part of
the manor, castle and park of
Clifford, after the said Lady
Constance Lucy has received out of
the said rents the sums of
£772. 3. 2. beign the residue of
£3739. 3. 2. which she disbursed
towards the payment of various debts
owed by the said Sir Robert Whitney.

Recites the following deeds =
(i) 1615/6, Feb. 16 = Lease for
21 years from Sir Robert
Whitney to Lady Constance
Lucy and Sir Richard Lucy of
the manor and lordship of
Whitney, the park called
Whitney Park the manor and
lordship of Boughroyde, co.
Radnor, the manor and
lordship of Clifton-super-
Dunsmore, co. Warwick, and
the manor and lordship of
Icombe, co. Gloucester.

(ii) Subsequent grant by fine of
premises from Sir R.W. and
Lady Anne, his wife, to Lady
Constance Lucy and Sir
Richard Lucy.

(iii) Release of the premises for
the aforesaid term from Sir
Richard Lucy to Lady
Constance Lucy.
</div>

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471. [18th cent.]. ABSTRACT OF TITLE of Mrs
[Judith] Killigrew to a house in
Grosvenor Square, London.

472. 1779 - 1802. PAPERS relating to the
administration by Tomkyns Dew, esq.,
of Lincoln's Inn Fields, and
Albany Wallils, esq., of Norfolk
Street, London, of the estate of
Catherine Haynes of Wootton, co.
Surrey, widow.
(1 bundle)

<u>VII WILLS, LETTERS OF ADMINISTRATION, ETC.</u>

473. 1567. Sept. 17. INQUISITIO POST MORTEM taken at
Hereford after the death of Sir
Robert Whitney, Kt.

Gives particulars of the lands,
etc which he possessed and states
that his son and heir is James
Whitney, aged 23 years.

474. 1610. April 28. [[Archive:Whitney and Clifford Manuscript, 474|PROBATE of the Will]] (12 Oct., 1609)
of Thomas Whitney of Middlewood,
co. Hereford.

475. 1736/7. March 4. LETTERS OF ADMINISTRATION granted to
William Wardour, esq., touching the
estate of his mother Anna Sophia
Wardour, late of the parish of St.
Margaret Westminster, widow, deceased.

476. 1745. June 13. LETTERS OF ADMINISTRATION to Silet
Dew, widow, touching the estate of
her husband, Edward Dew, late of
the parish of St. Giles in the Fields,
co. Middlesex.

477. 1750/1. Feb. 12. WILL of Tomkyns Wardour of the
parish of St. George Hanover Square,
co. Middlesex.

478. 1752. March 17. PROBATE of the Will (fragment) of
Tomkyns Wardour, late of the parish
of St. George, Hanover Square, esq.

479. 1758. July 28. LETTERS OF ADMINISTRATION to Tomkyns
Dew touching the estate of his mother,
Silett Dew, late of the parish of
St. Luke, co. Middlesex.

480. 1761. Oct. 21. PROBATE of the Will (15 Aug. 1761)
of Jane Oram of Kingston-upon-Thames,
co. Surrey, widow.
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481. 1762. Feb. 5. LETTERS OF ADMINISTRATION to
Tomkyns Dew, esq., touching the
estate of his aunt, Jane Gillmore,
late of the parish of St. Bridget,
alias Bride, London, widow.

482. 1762. Dec. 8. ABSTRACT of the will of Mrs.
Styleman of Hunstanton.

483. 1764. Aug. 28. PROBATE of the will (7 July 1764)
of Jane Walter of the parish of
St. Luke's Chelsea, co. Middlesex,
widow.

484. 1765. Jan. 8. PROBATE of the Will (13 Apr 1762)
of Mary Fleetwood of St Margaret
Westminster, spinster.

485. (i) COPIES of two Wills or draft
wills (6 Nov. 1764 and 10 Aug
1769) of Dorcas Burley of the
parish of Westham, co. Essex,
widow.

(ii) AFFIDAVIT of Eugene Allen of
the parish of St. Mary White-
chappel, co. Middlesex, grocer,
and Tamer Allen, his wife,
touching the said Wills.

(iii) LETTERS OF ADMINISTRATION (28
Aug. 1770) to Sarah Dew, wife
of Tomkyns Dew, esq., touching
the estate of said Dorcas
Burley.

486. 1770. Aug. 27. PROBATE of the Will (16 Aug. 1770)
of Anne Blakeway of Cotteridge, co.
Hertford, spinster.

487. 1775. Aug. 24. COPY WILL of David Franco of
Fenchurch Street, London, esq.

Among his bequests are £1000
to Tomkyns Dew and £500 to Sarah
Dew, his wife.

488. 1783. Sept. 24. PROBATE of the Will (11 March 1783)
of Frances Kidd of Great Distaff
Lane in the parish of St. Margaret
Moses, London.

489. 1784. March 4. DISCHARGE from Albany Wallis for a
legacy of £20 left to him by
Frances Kidd, late of the parish of
St. Margaret Moses, London.

490. 1784. March 9. DISCHARGE from Daniel Haynes for a
legacy of £20 left to his wife,
Catherine Haynes by Frances Kidd,
late of the parish of St. Margaret
Moses, London.
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522. 1822-1828. ACCOUNT BOOK : Tomkyns Dew, Esq.,
in account with Davies, Drummer,
Cheese & Cheese.

523. 1823-1827. FILE OF RECEIPTS from Thomas Powell,
esq., to Tomkyns Dew. esq., for
certain annuity payments due to
the late Mrs. L. Powell, mother
of the said Thomas Powell.

524. 1825. May 31. A London stationer's bill for
goods supplied to Tomkyne Dew, esq.

525. [1829]. Tomkyns Dew, esq., in account with
C. Hancorn concerning rents, etc.

526. 1829-1838. ACCOUNT (with vouchers) of Tomkyns
Dew, esq., with John Hancorn

527. 1834-1839. BANK PASS-BOOK = Tomkyne Dew, esq.,
in account with Davies Crummer,
E. H. Cheese and David Oliver.

528. 1837. A Portsmouth outfitter's bil for
naval uniform and other items of
equipment supplied to Roderick
Dew, son of Tomkyns Dew, esq.

529. 1837-1844. SMALL NOTEBOOK containing accounts
of Wheat, barley, peas, etc., sold
by Tomkyns Dew, esq., to Thomas
Wanklyn.

530. 1838-1848. BILLS for blacksmith's work done by
Thomas Wanklyn for Tomkyns Dew, esq.
(1 bundle)

531. 1842-1846. RECEIPTS for money paid in to his
bank by Tomkyns Dew, esq.
(1 bundle)

IX <u>CORRESPONDENCE</u>

532. 1724. April 4. John Pateshall to (? - part of
letter missing) concerning heriots
due to William Wardour, lord of the
manor of Whitney on the death of
Henry Williams, [of Cabalva].

533-536. 1793. Feb. Tomkyns DEW from Portland Place,
13 - March 15. London, to Henry Stylemann, esq.

Four letters concerning legal and
estate matters

537. 1806. Nov. 14. J. SPENCER from Hay, to Henry
Styleman, esq., at Snetisham near
Lynn, Norfolk.
The tenancy of Castleton Farm, etc

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538-543. 1810-1812. Six letters to Colonel Thomas Powell
of Whitney Court [second husband
of Ann Dew, widow of Tomkyne Dew I]
concerning estate and legal matters.

544. 1811. April 3. Sarah Eves from Clifford Place to
John Spencer [agent to Col. Thomas
Powell] concerning land called
Lox's {or Lockster's} <u>Pool.</u>

545. 1840. Nov. 30. LETTER from the Tithe Commission
Office to E.S. Gisborne of
Huntington Court, Hereford,
notifying him that the
apportionment of the rent-charge
in liew of the tithes of the pariah
of Whitney was confirmed by the
Board 27 November, 1840.

546. 1816-1817. FILE of letters and papers
concerning the investment of money
in the Hay Railway (tramroad)
Company.

547. 1823. J. Parsons to Mrs. Thomas Powell
at Aberystwyth, concerning the
payment of certain dividends.

548. 1833. June 12. John F. Stuart from Brighton to
the Rev. George Coke at Lower
Moors, Kington, Herefordshire
concerning the vacant curacy of
Whitney.

549. 1833. June 27. R. G. Grahm from the Admiralty
to Viscount Hereford regarding the
admission of Roderick Dew,
Tomkyns Dew's son, to the Royal
Naval College.

550. 1833. Nov. 20. R. Jenkyns from Balliol College,
Oxford, to Colonel Powell at
Hardwick, Hay, concerning the
admission of [Tomkyns (III) Dew?]
to the college.

551. 1838. June 4. William Jones, secretary of the
Bristol Asylum or School of
Industry for the Blind, to Thomas
Lewis, clerk of the Hay Union, at
Bercon, concerning two inmates of
the institution.

552. 1812-1850. LETTERS to Tomkyns Dew (II) of
Whitney Court from various corres-
pondents, maily relating to estate
and financial affairs.
(1 bundle)
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553. 1813-1819. LETTERS from Mrs. Ann Powell
(formerly wife of Tomkyne Dew (I))
to her son Tomkyns Dew (II)
concerning family and financial
matters, her separation from her
(second) husband, Colonel Thomas
Powell, etc.
(1 bundle)

554. 1824-1838. LETTERS, maily to Tomkyns Dew, (II)
esq., and papers relating to the
settlement of the estate of Mrs.
Armine Styleman of Snettisham, co
Norfolk and particularly to the
legacies due under her will to Dew's
sisters Mrs. Ann McGachen and Mrs.
Armine Furlong of both whose marriage
settlements Dew was trustee.
(1 bundle)

555. 1835-1838. LETTERS to Tomkyns Dew (II) of
Whitney Court, concerning the
careers and education of his sons
Tomkyns (III) the eldest
(admitted to the Inner Temple in
1838). Hnery, the second son,
(entered Rugby School in 1834),
Edward L'Estrange, the third son,
(at Shrewsbury School) in 1838), and
Roderick, the fourth son (entered
the Navy in 1835).

One of the letters is from Dr.
Arnold, headmaster of Rugby.
(1 bundle)

556. 1859-1891. LETTERS to Tomkyns Dew (III) of
Whitney Court from various
correspondents concerning the
payment of chief rents, fishing
rights in the River Wye, etc.
( 1 bundle)

557. 1887-1889. CORRESPONDENCE concerning land
required from Tomkyns Dew (III)
esq., by the Golden Valley Railway
Co., for the purpose of an
extension of the line to Hay.
(1 bundle)

X <u>MISCELLANEOUS.</u>

558. 1615. May 25. 1. James Whitelock of the Middle
Temple, esq.

2. Sir Robert Whitney of Whitney,
esq.

DEFEASANCE to two Bonds of Statute
Staple, dated 28 July, 1613 and 8
December, 1614 for the recovery of
debts acknowledged before the Chief
Justice of the Court of Common Pleas.
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559. 1764. Aug. 24 & 1. Nicoles Turner of Bignor Park,
25 co. Sussex, esq.

2. Henrietta Meriton of Chelsea,
co. Middlesex, spinster.

3. Sir Francis Vincent of Stoke
Dabernon, co. Surrey, Bart.,
and John Vincent of Beech Hill,
co. Surrey, esq.

4. Tomkyns Dew of Lincoln's Inn,
esq., and Mathew Duane of
Bedford Row, co. Middlesex, esq.

COPY LEASE & RELEASE, being a
Settlement made before the marriage
of the said nicolas Turner and
Henrietta Meriton, of lands lying at
parisho f Sutton, co. Surrey.

560. 1765. Jan. 17. AUTHORITY from Nicholas Turner and
Henrietta Turner, his wife, to
Tomkyne Dew and Mathew Duane, esqrs.,
to sell and transfer for much of a
sum of L5000 4% consolidated Bank
Annuities which was transferred to
the said Dew and Duane upon trust by
the Marriage Settlement of the said
Nicholas and Henrietta as will raise
the sum of L1,076. 19. 6. to pay
Nicholas Kempe and Ann his wife
their share of the estate of Mrs.
Ann Meriton, deceased.

561. 1765. March 9. 1. Elizabeth Werdour of Grosvenor
Street, London, widow.

2. Charles Morris of Loddington
co. Leicester, esq.

AGREEMENT to pay 5 per cent instead
of 4 percent in consideration of a
mortgage upon part of the estate of
the said Charles Morris being
permitted to continue for the
term of 4 years.

562. 1771. Feb 6. 1. Mary Bourne of the parish of
St. George Hanover Square,
spinster.

2. Tomkyns Dew of Lincoln's Inn
Fields, esq.

ASSIGNMENT of seven messuages or
tenements in St. Margaret's
Churchyard in the parish of St.
Margaret, Westminster.

</div>

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563. 1788. Dec. 25. 1. Tomkyns Dew of Whitney Court,
esq.

2. Ann Styleman of Ringstead, co.
Norfolk, spinster,

3. Rev. Armine Styleman of Ring-
stead, clerk, and Henry
Styleman of Snettisham, co.
Norfolk, esq.

4. Nicholas Styleman of Norwich
esq., and the Rev. Edward Roger
North of Harlow, co. Essex,
clerk.

SETTLEMENT (before the marriage of
the said Tomkyne Dew and Ann
Styleman) of an annuity of L200
on the said Ann Styleman for life
in addition to an annuity or rent
charge of L400 to which the said
Ann shall become entitled after
the death of the said Tomkyne Dew
in accordance with the terms of the
will of Mary Bourne, late of St.
George Hanover Square who bequeathed
the manors of Whitney and Clifford
etc., in trust to the said Tomkyns
Dew.

564. 1800. CASE, on the part of the executors
and trustees of the Will of
Tomkyns Dew, esq., for the Opinion
of John Lloyd of Lincoln's Inn on
certain points arising from the
said will.

565. 1800. do. for the Opinion
of R. Richards of Lincoln's Inn.

566. 1800. June 2. 1. Henry Styleman of Snettisham,
co. Norfolk, esq., and Nicolas
Styleman of Norwich, esq.,
(executors of the late Tomkyns
Dew of Whitney Court).

2. Ann Dew now of Portland Place,
in the parish of St. Marylebone,
co. Middlesex, widow (executrix
of the said Tomkyns Dew).

ASSIGNMENT of household furniture
and other effects in the town and
country houses of the said Tomkyns
Dew.

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567. 1804. SCHEDULE of the title deeds of
Henry Styleman, esq., to certain
estates in Hunstanton and elseware
in Norfolk.

568. [c. 1820]. PARTICULARS of an exchange of land
between Mr. Hancorn and Mr. Dew.

569. 1824. March 8. 1. Tomkyns Dew of Whitney Court,
esq.

2. Rev. George Albert Barker of
Whitton, co. Rednor.

BOND in L100 for the payment of
L500 and interest.

570. 1847. July 17. COPY of the Court Roll of the Manor
of Cheltenham, co. Gloucester,
recording the surrender by Charles
John Furlong, late of Ballydaniel,
co, Limerick, but now of Liege in
Belgium, esq., and Armine, his wife,
late Armine Dew, of the moiety
of a messuage or dwelling house in
Cheltenham, to the use of Tomkyns
Dew of Whitney Court, esq.

571. 1860. July 5. 1. Charles John Furlong of Clifton,
co. Gloucester, major in H.M.
Army.

2. Caroline Warner Girdlestone,
wife of Nelson Girdleston of
London.

3. The said Nelson Girdlestone.

4. Armine Styleman Furlong of
Clifton, spinster.

5. Tomkyns Dew of Whitney Court,
co. Hereford, esq., and the
Rev. Thomas Furlong of Bath,
clerk.

ASSIGNMENT by (1) to (5) of his
life interest in L600 and L800 part
of the trust property subject to
his Marriage Settlement, and
Indemnity to the trustees on raising
and paying the L600 to Mrs.
Girdlestone and the L800 to Miss
Furlong.
</div>
----
Copyright ©2006, the [[Whitney Research Group]]

[[Category: England]]
[[Category: Herefordshire, England]]
[[Category: Clifford, Herefordshire, England]]
[[Category: Whitney, Herefordshire, England]]
[[Category: Medieval]]

Archive:Whitney and Clifford Manorial Records

2006-11-20T02:45:13Z

Bruce Whitney: /* Page 26 */

User:Bruce Whitney/Lineage

2006-11-20T02:38:25Z

Bruce Whitney:

* John Whitney, m.(1) Elinor -----
* Joshua Whitney, m. Abigail Tarbell
* Cornelius Whitney m. Sarah Shepherd
* Matthias Whitney m. Alice -----
* Cornelius Whitney m. Elizabeth May
* Cornelius Whitney m. Rhoda Gould
* Silas Whitney m. Matilda Cross
* Oscar Cross Whitney m. Onona M. Bliss
* Albert Oscar Whitney m. (2) Ella Delong Driver
* Bruce Arnold Whitney m. (2) Sue Ann Blasing

User talk:Bruce Whitney

2006-11-20T02:24:41Z

Bruce Whitney: Default new user talk page

User:Bruce Whitney/Lineage

2006-11-20T02:24:41Z

Bruce Whitney: Default new user lineage page

* Your earliest Whitney ancestor
* (add more ancestors here)
* The name of your Grandfather/mother
* The name of your Father/Mother
* Your name

User:Bruce Whitney

2006-11-20T02:24:41Z

Bruce Whitney: Default new user page

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{{Lineage}}
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[[Category: WRG Members|{{PAGENAME}}]]


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