View source for User:Tdoyle/2006 1Q

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==Pages with Many Photos==
Each Reunion has a page of snapshots which have many images.  I'm in no rush to import them.  Unique naming of the images is an issue.  You did well on the Heraldry page, but I'm not sure I'd have called one of the images "Benjamin.jpg", as that name is probably not specific enough.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 20:37, 29 January 2006 (CST)

== My Database ==
Tim:  A few issues, indeed!  The reference numbers need to be separated by commas.  Of course there are issues of missing spaces.  Also, the fact that Elinor had three versions of her given name, and therefore also three versions of her married name, is a problem.  I don't know how to deal with that.  I could suppress the export of married names if that would help.

- [[User_talk:Rlward|Robert]] 21:28, 3 February 2006 (CST)

== Thanks for the message ==
Hi Tim,

Thanks for the message about Charles M. Whitney.  I got too tired last  night before I could get what we know about him online.  We have information about his later life, but the beginnings are sketchy.  I have managed to track him down in 1860 - he's a lawyer in Troy, NY.  Beyond that, I am having difficulty finding his parents.

You said you had a list from ancestry of 9 Charles Whitneys from this time period - would you mind sending it to me, as I don't have an ancestry subscription?

I've been working through the 1850 census from Heritage Quest, but have eliminated most of the Charles Whitneys that I can find.  The one other clue we have is that his son, Charles F., had an 'A.J. Whitney' in his personal notebook.  My father-in-law remembers hearing about an 'Uncle AJ', as well.  We believe that this is Alonzo J. Whitney, who married Melissa J. Rice.  I've managed to find marriage records for Alonzo, who is the son of Jacob and Sally Whitney of MA.  Unfortunately, though I found Alonzo J. living at home in the 1850 census, an older brother Charles was not in the household.  The same household in 1840 did have an older son living with them, but - of course - no name.

Thanks for telling me your hunch - I'll go look at James and Emma of Fitchburg and see what I can turn up.  :)

-Stacy

PS - Is there any way to change the title of a document?  I put in one of the families without the "Family:" as the first thing in the title.  (Oops - in looking up the document in my lineage, I see you've already changed it.  However, could I have changed it somehow, or is that an admin thing?  Thanks.)

== Eleanore Dilello's page ==
Whew!! i thought I would never find you.. i deleted the page because i dont know what i am doing...ha ha ha

I removed the page because it was doing something funny with one of the lines...the one that says It was Pierce's Whitney book..

anyway...if you know what happened let me know i am going to post it again...

Eleanore

== Estate Info - Isaac Whitney ==
The Estate info on Isaac Whitney came from the original WRG site.

I have used the 'Move to page' option when I find one of the pages I set up before the new standards or find one I made a mistake on that already has data.  However in hopes that you or Robert can delete the bad ones at some point (and not liking redirect), I've tried to go in and fix the parents and any children's pages to point to corrected page directly.  Since I'm not sure how to make sure no one is linked to old page via the user pages lineage or elsewhere, I've not tried to actually delete the old page.

- [[User_talk:Andaleen|Andaleen]] 08:30, 13 February 2006 (PST)

== Erroneous User Name ==

Tim:  I see that BenHWhittney (two "t"s) has registered.  His name is really Ben H. Whitney, and on his User page, he seems to think his user name is BenHWhitney (only one "t").  Can you deal with this issue with him?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 10:57, 14 February 2006 (CST)

== Databases ==

Links look good, however they were a little confusing at first.  The Moses link looked like what I was used to, however when I click on the others, they appeared in a different format than the one I choose for my profile (at least I think that is the difference).  The only other thing I might change is the name Links when used for this purpose.  Wiki implies links are editable, and these are not - might change to Read-only Links or Un-editable Links, so it is clear before you click on these that you are entering a workspace that does not conform to the stated goals of the Wiki environment.  These spaces are owned by single, special individuals.  

So does this mean you've figured out how to automatically load the Family pages from your gedcom and don't need me to continue copying from the WRG site into Wiki, or do you want me to start including these links on the pages as I convert them?  I have three more children and all their children of Benjamin<sup>2</sup> to do and then I'm done with that path unless you want me to backtrack and add these links before moving on to another line.  I think I understand how you set them up and could follow same format on pages I'm converting if that is what you want me to do.

- [[User_talk:Andaleen|Andaleen]] 08:37, 14 February 2006 (PST)

== Phoenix Format ==

Tim:  In answer to your questions, it couldn't be simple!
* NO PAGES contain the title and author of the work.  I put that above the navigation links and the border of the page for that reason.  This is in analogy to the imported Pierce pages.  The exact format of the author and title part is not important, so suit yourself on that.  I also think we need to add breadcrumbs above the title and author, at the top of each page.
* PAGES iii, v, and vii have simple borders and no headings.
* PAGES iv and vi have no borders.
* PAGE viii is blank
* PAGE ix has nothing in the center, just the page number on the right.
* EVEN PAGES x to xx have the page number on the left and "The Whitneys" in the center.
* ODD PAGES xi to xxi have the page number on the right and "Of England." in the center.
* PAGE xxii has the page number on the left and "The Whitneys of England." in the center.
* PAGE 1 has blanks in the heading, but it is still there.
* EVEN NUMBERED PAGES 2 to 2474 contain "Eighth Generation." or the analogue in the center and the page number on the left.
* ODD NUMBERED PAGES 3 to 2475 contain "Whitney Family." in the center of the heading and the page number on the right.  (I just fixed the example in the [[WRG:Sandbox|WRG sandbox]] which had the page number on the wrong side for page 1551.)
* PAGE 2476 is blank.
* The Index of Places (pages 2477 to 2526), the Index of Surnames (pages 2527 to 2737), and the Errata (pages 2738 to 2740) have a different format altogether.  I'll try to generate example pages for each.  We currently only have transcribed a small portion of the Index of Surnames, and none of the rest.
* CHART PAGES, such as p0028a.txt, have a simple border around the whole page and no heading.  This one is bound between pages 28 and 29, and the  back of the page is blank.  Others are analogous.  They are all sideways, since they are wider than they are tall, except for pxxiii.txt, which is vertical.  A fixed-width font is mandatory for them, because of the way I have used ASCII characters to draw the lines.  Possibly a different way could be devised to draw these charts not involving this device, but I haven't really tried to find a way to do that.  My version of TMG has an add-on, something called Visual Chart Form, which can draw such charts, but whether they could be somehow incorporated into web pages, I just don't know.

Another issue:  since the transcription is not finished, we need to create templates into which to fit the text of newly scanned and OCRed pages, even, odd, and index.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 10:54, 15 February 2006 (CST)

== Databases, Continued ==

I very much like the links and references added to the pages like [[Family:Whitney, Ezra (1731-a1800)|Ezra Whitney]] you've been working on.  I did notice however the one time I tried to use references that even though I incremented the reference number thinking that is what tied it to its corresponding note, it did not seem to matter what number I put in, the display incremented by one in order of appearance (ie: I input ref 2{{ref|2}}, then ref 1{{ref|1}}, then ref 2 again{{ref|2}} because I wanted to use the same reference call out for two sources), however the display is 1, 2, and 3.  So I quit trying to do anything except setup at least one or two refs as template samples on the pages I'm converting for others to use or to come back to.  I was also not always sure why on the original site there seemed to be the same information seemingly repeated 2 or more times unless that was the old site's way of indicating multiple sources without including source details.  For the most part I'm just transferring what is on original site as is and assuming you, Robert, others, or myself can come back and add references and notes and cleanup later.

The skin I chose to use in my preferences is 'Cologne Blue'.  I think the pages I clicked on when I was looking around shifted me to 'MonoBook'.  I see 'Cologne Blue' when I view Moses and John from Archives, but when I click on other of John's children or on Moses children, I get the other skin (note: I did not click on all of them).

When I was trying to review skins, I notice on my screen 'Simple' skin looks really bad - the side bar navigation and the main body of information overlap one another like a double image making both unreadable in the area where the side bar info resides.  Also noticed on my layout one or two of the other skins which had the WRG logo in the upper left corner overlapped information in the main section and I could not read headers.  Let me know if I need to take screen shots and try to email to you separately.

As for the links - what I was trying to convey was perhaps two sets of links, one set taking you to other editable links and the other clearly identifying that the links are for informational use only and not editable except by owner once there.  It's not that big a deal.  Like you I think if Wiki is used correctly, those gedcom links become less meaningful, or become almost mirror copies of the editable page that calls them - assuming people like you and me consolidate and cross reference conflicting information from each site into Wiki page, and assuming that the authors of each restricted site, reviews information and performs similar action on their own pages.  I did notice that you added information to the bottom of the pages identifying owners and asking people to contact them if they think a change is needed, so that probably suffices.  It's still may be confusing the first few times a person goes to those links, but will probably clear itself up the first time they try to edit and can't - they will look more closely at the message.  I just thought it would be helpful to tell them in some manner before they clicked on link not to expect to edit info when they got there.  

Thanks
- [[User_talk:Andaleen|Andaleen]] 09:00, 15 February 2006 (PST)

== Phoenix Index Format ==

Tim:  I think I've got a sample index page.  See the [[WRG:Sandbox|WRG sandbox]] for the code.

Question:  Why does <nowiki><font size="-1"></nowiki> seem not work on wiki pages?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 12:57, 15 February 2006 (CST)

== Phoenix Format, Continued ==

Tim:

In general, that is a creditable effort!  Comments:

1. I have changed the PhoenixHeading template somewhat.

2. Any words in the center portion of the header should be italicized.  In this case, it is "Whitney Family."

3. While your templates work fine for this page, which begins with an "entry", they won't necessarily do the right thing for pages which begin with either a continuation of an entry, or with a new family, or with a new generation.  Those which begin with a continuation of an entry will have nothing in the first and last column, at least in theory, and text in the middle.  Those which begin with a new family will not have the separating horizontal rule above the names of the parents.  Those which begin with a new generation have about an inch of white space, followed by "FOURTH GENERATION." (or the analogue) in larger capitals, centered, followed by a new family beginning without the horizontal rule.

That's all for now.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 10:12, 16 February 2006 (CST)

== Phoenix Format, Continued ==

Tim:

Yes, the center part of the heading is ALWAYS in italics.

I see that passing no parameters to the entry template would work for the continuation situation.

We need a template for beginning a family without a horizontal rule.
In addition we need either a template with a rule included, or a separate template with just the rule.  Either of these approaches should work.

I tweaked the new generation template.

I also created an example of the Errata pages, of which there are only three.  Since they have not yet been transcribed, it makes no sense to write a specialized bunch of code just for those three pages.  Instead, I'll just do a custom coding job on them.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 13:22, 16 February 2006 (CST)

== Cousins Marry - How/Where to report children ==

I just came across my first set of double cousins which made issue I'm discussing here stand out to me, although issue will exist anytime a cousin marries another cousin whether it be 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.  See [[Family:Watkins, Gilbert N. (s1765-1822)|Gilbert N. Watkins]] and [[Family:Watkins, Sarah (c1766-?)|Sarah Watkins]].  Gilbert N. and Sarah Watkins mothers were sisters, Sarah and Esther Whitney, while their fathers were brothers, Nathan and James Watkins.  I did not like the idea of maintaining data on children in two different pages, so I deleted the children from Sarah's page and just set up link back to Gilbert's.  Take a look and let me know how you want to handle Family Group when cousins marry cousins.  Whose page do we want to post children to (Father or Mother or Both)?

- [[User_talk:Andaleen|Andaleen]] 16 Feb 2006 8:41 pm PST

== Cousins Marry (part 2) ==

What you suggested made sense until I came to my next set of cousins.  [[Family:Watkins, Patty (c1778-1849)|Patty Watkins]], daughter of [[Family:Whitney, Esther (1742-a1783)|Esther Whitney]] married her cousin [[Family:Whitney, Fisher (1775-1805)|Fisher Whitney]].  I started to direct her to Fisher's page when I suddenly realized, she had a second marriage with children, and if I link her to Fisher with no page of her own, I have no home for second family.  

- [[User talk:Andaleen|Andaleen]] 16 February 2006 9:42pm PST

== Extracts ==

Tim:

All the Extracts are finished, as far as I can tell, except for Phoenix and the Pierce indexes!  Whew!!

On to new projects.  Next I intend to finish the Biographies, then start on the City Directories.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 15:02, 20 February 2006 (CST)

== "Add a new page" Problem ==

Tim:  On the WRG:Start_a_new_page page, the labels above the two windows and the action of the two buttons below are mismatched.  The button under the Simple Version window gives you the Complete Version template, and vice versa.  Either the labels should be switched, or the buttons should.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 18:40, 25 February 2006 (CST)

== Links in Transcriptions/Extracts ==

Tim:

It occurred to me that putting links in ALL our transcriptions or extracts from names pointing to family group records may or may not be a good idea.  As a case in point, consider the Pierce transcription.  We already have links from some names to the Errors page, so there is a conflict there.

I don't have a solution.  I am just pointing out that there may be a problem.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 07:07, 28 February 2006 (CST)

== Rollbacks ==

Tim:

Thanks for pointing out that "feature" of rollbacks.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 10:33, 28 February 2006 (CST)

== Pierce Edit ==

Tim:

I think we should find the source of these dates.  If it is a family bible, for example, it should be posted under bibles.  If it is from the vital records of Dummerston, it should be posted under vital records.

It makes you want to "protect" these pages.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 15:22, 1 March 2006 (CST)

== Links ==

Tim:

Did you see [[Template_talk:Family Group Record Format#Links|my post on this]]?  Probably I put it in the wrong place.  Where would be a better place so that all those creating new family group record pages would see it?

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 09:00, 2 March 2006 (CST)

== Conflict in Links in Pierce ==

Tim:

As I mentioned in an earlier post, sometimes there is a link in the Pierce transcription from a name to the errors page.  If we want to link from the name to that person's family group record instead, we have a conflict.  In such cases, we could add something like "[ERROR!]" after the name, and make the link to the error page from that word.  I think the mechanism is a reasonable solution, but would like your input as to just what to add.

Could it be as simple as just using the traffic danger sign graphic?  If so, how do you create a link using a graphic instead of text?  Does <nowiki>[[Archive:Errors in Pierce#67-1|[[Image:danger.jpg]]]]</nowiki> or some similar variant of that actually work?

Thoughts, please!

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 10:15, 2 March 2006 (CST)

== Error Links ==

Your solution to the image=link problem is good, but it is very much not obvious that the graphic '''IS''' a link.  In HTML, a graphic which is a link gets surrounded by a blue border, just like text gets a blue underline.  That way, one can easily recognize that this image is not just an image, but also a link.  Your solution lacks this feature.  I, for one, would never think of clicking on the danger graphic.

I rather suppose that the above is not fixable, so I now prefer the idea of using some text for the error link.  Perhaps the word shouldn't be "error", but "correction" instead.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 12:20, 2 March 2006 (CST)

== Printable Version ==

Tim:

Have you looked at the Printable Version of any of the pages using the <nowiki>{{ref|#}}</nowiki> construct?  Yike!!

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 18:26, 2 March 2006 (CST)

== Why I Don't Need a Template for "Under Construction" ==

Tim:

I understand how to make and use templates.  I don't need one in this situation because of how I am creating these new pages:
# Find a link to the person's page from the parent's page.
# Click on it, opening a blank edit window.
# Go to my word processor, where I have my own custom copy of the family group template.
# Copy the whole file.
# Go back to the blank edit window, and paste.
# Edit the file until satisfied.
# Delete the top two lines.
# Save.
# Edit "Robert's Tasks" to record a task as "DONE".
You see that it doesn't matter whether the "Under Construction" code appears on the top line of my file or whether your new Uc template does.  I'm not retyping that line over and over.  I actually thought about using one of the colored divboxes rather than what I did, and I may still do so.

One advantage of doing it this way, rather than using the "Add a new page" link in the navigation box, is that I can't misspell the name of the file I'm adding in the name box.  You may have noticed that I have deleted several duplicative files, some of which were inadvertently generated that way.

My custom template is somewhat different from the one at the web site.  In particular, it has twelve children instead of four, and more reference/note constructs.  I find it easier to delete extra children than to add more.  I may also create a separate one for female heads, with pronouns of the opposite gender and daughter/son swapped, but haven't done that yet.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 12:03, 16 March 2006 (CST)

== Backups ==

Tim:

Since our method of working has changed with the new website, I realized that I will no longer have a mirror of those files on my home computer.  This means that the burden falls on you to do a careful job of backing up those files regularly, also keeping the backups safe (preferably at a different geographic location).  I assume you are already doing this, but I would like you to describe to me your efforts in this area.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 06:15, 21 March 2006 (CST)

== Printable Version ==

Tim:

You wrote
:"Robert: This has been solved. You may need to force a reload of the page to see the change."

I'm still seeing the problem.  Look again.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 06:32, 21 March 2006 (CST)

== Bull / Baull ==

Robert:

I seem to remember something about a Bull / Baull woman in the information that Paul reed and I were corresponding about. Could you check the file that I sent to you and see what the name of the woman was that ran the inn that the Christopher Marlowe was killed in?

Thank you!

- [[User:Tdoyle|Tim Doyle]] | [[User talk:Tdoyle|Talk to me]] 11:52, 21 March 2006 (CST)

== Eleanor (Whitney) Bull ==

Tim:

I've sent you information on her by e-mail.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 12:32, 21 March 2006 (CST)

== St. Mary Aldermary ==

Tim:

I love what you've done with that page!  Kudos!!

I also see that Smith and Sanborn made an error in calling the second Mary "Margaret."  That settles that!

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 16:17, 27 March 2006 (CST)

== Printable Version ==

Tim:

I use Mozilla Firefox v1.0.7.  For example on [[Family:Whitney, Benjamin (1643-1723)|Benjamin<sup>2</sup> Whitney]]'s page, in the place where <nowiki>{{ref|1}}</nowiki> is found in the source, I see <nowiki>"[1] (http://wiki.whitneygen.org/wrg/index.php/Family:Whitney%2C_Benjamin_%281643-1723%29#endnote_1)" </nowiki>(without the quotation marks, all as a superscript) which is, of course, the web address of the place to which the reference points, namely the first note construct, enclosed in parentheses.  It is the same after every use of the reference construct.  I expected to see only "[1]" (without the quotation marks, as a superscript).

Everything else seems acceptable for a printable version.

If you can't eliminate this artifact, I would consider the printable version option to be useless.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 19:15, 27 March 2006 (CST)

== My Wiki Expectations ==

Tim:

I'm glad you asked this question now, since I have seen many of the advantages of this structure.  I also see a few disadvantages.  On balance, this is a BIG WIN.

*Ad: Everyone can add information.
*Dis: There is a learning curve on how to do that, and it's more than many users will choose to learn.
*Dis: The wiki syntax is quite different from HTML, so even web people have the learning curve (although not as steep).
*Dis: Someone has to review each change to check the syntax, maintain the correct style, and enforce proper documentation.

*Ad: You are a wiki guru, and can be consulted in case of questions.
*Dis: You are the sole wiki guru, as well as webmaster, so there is a huge problem with single-point failure:  if you are killed by a meteorite, a tornado, or a snakebite, the web site is in deep trouble.  With the old web site, I had a mirror, so could bring up the website in my own web space if necessary, or could arrange for a new host without loss of any data.

*Ad: Cross-linking between sources and family groups is relatively easy.
*Dis: Creating family groups becomes a bottleneck.  Andaleen is doing yeoman service here!
*Dis: Documenting the family groups becomes a second bottleneck.  I've been working hard on the first three generations, and am almost done.  I'm not sure I want to continue into the fourth.
*Dis: Cross-linking is a third bottleneck.  This involves MANY edits of our source material, each minor.  I've fallen behind with this on the first three generations, I know.

*Ad: Templates are good!
*Dis: They are near the end of the learning curve, so only you and I have any chance of writing new ones right now (and I'm not too sure about me!).

*Ad: The search engine exists, and works well for simple searches.
*Dis: I am constantly missing a strong search engine.  For some searches, I even go back to the old website and use Google, a strategy I devised because the ''old'' search engine was also rather weak.  This will become less and less possible as the new web site mutates, and diverges from the old one.

Features I really like: What Links Here, hiding e-mail addresses, ease of uploading images.  I like the idea of a discussion page attached to every page, but I haven't found an effective way to use them yet.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 20:48, 27 March 2006 (CST)

== Isleworth Parish Register ==

Tim:

I'm quite sure you mean March 25th (Lady Day) and not 21st for the first day of the year.  See, for example, [http://www.monticello.org/reports/life/old_style.html this page].

I have made what I think are the appropriate changes to the web page.  Since the Gregorian calendar did not exist until 1582, the
Julian calendar was the only one in use, so writing 1575/6 is anachronistic, and 1575[/6] is probably also improper, so I am leaving it as 1575.  For dates after 1582 and before 1752, I have used 1623[/4], for example.

- [[User:Rlward|Robert]] | [[User_talk:Rlward|Talk to me]] 09:12, 28 March 2006 (CST)