User talk:Tdoyle

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Pages with Many Photos

Each Reunion has a page of snapshots which have many images. I'm in no rush to import them. Unique naming of the images is an issue. You did well on the Heraldry page, but I'm not sure I'd have called one of the images "Benjamin.jpg", as that name is probably not specific enough.

- Robert | Talk to me 20:37, 29 January 2006 (CST)

My Database

Tim: A few issues, indeed! The reference numbers need to be separated by commas. Of course there are issues of missing spaces. Also, the fact that Elinor had three versions of her given name, and therefore also three versions of her married name, is a problem. I don't know how to deal with that. I could suppress the export of married names if that would help.

- Robert 21:28, 3 February 2006 (CST)

Thanks for the message

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the message about Charles M. Whitney. I got too tired last night before I could get what we know about him online. We have information about his later life, but the beginnings are sketchy. I have managed to track him down in 1860 - he's a lawyer in Troy, NY. Beyond that, I am having difficulty finding his parents.

You said you had a list from ancestry of 9 Charles Whitneys from this time period - would you mind sending it to me, as I don't have an ancestry subscription?

I've been working through the 1850 census from Heritage Quest, but have eliminated most of the Charles Whitneys that I can find. The one other clue we have is that his son, Charles F., had an 'A.J. Whitney' in his personal notebook. My father-in-law remembers hearing about an 'Uncle AJ', as well. We believe that this is Alonzo J. Whitney, who married Melissa J. Rice. I've managed to find marriage records for Alonzo, who is the son of Jacob and Sally Whitney of MA. Unfortunately, though I found Alonzo J. living at home in the 1850 census, an older brother Charles was not in the household. The same household in 1840 did have an older son living with them, but - of course - no name.

Thanks for telling me your hunch - I'll go look at James and Emma of Fitchburg and see what I can turn up. :)

-Stacy

PS - Is there any way to change the title of a document? I put in one of the families without the "Family:" as the first thing in the title. (Oops - in looking up the document in my lineage, I see you've already changed it. However, could I have changed it somehow, or is that an admin thing? Thanks.)

Eleanore Dilello's page

Whew!! i thought I would never find you.. i deleted the page because i dont know what i am doing...ha ha ha

I removed the page because it was doing something funny with one of the lines...the one that says It was Pierce's Whitney book..

anyway...if you know what happened let me know i am going to post it again...

Eleanore

Estate Info - Isaac Whitney

The Estate info on Isaac Whitney came from the original WRG site.

I have used the 'Move to page' option when I find one of the pages I set up before the new standards or find one I made a mistake on that already has data. However in hopes that you or Robert can delete the bad ones at some point (and not liking redirect), I've tried to go in and fix the parents and any children's pages to point to corrected page directly. Since I'm not sure how to make sure no one is linked to old page via the user pages lineage or elsewhere, I've not tried to actually delete the old page.

- Andaleen 08:30, 13 February 2006 (PST)

Erroneous User Name

Tim: I see that BenHWhittney (two "t"s) has registered. His name is really Ben H. Whitney, and on his User page, he seems to think his user name is BenHWhitney (only one "t"). Can you deal with this issue with him?

- Robert | Talk to me 10:57, 14 February 2006 (CST)

Databases

Links look good, however they were a little confusing at first. The Moses link looked like what I was used to, however when I click on the others, they appeared in a different format than the one I choose for my profile (at least I think that is the difference). The only other thing I might change is the name Links when used for this purpose. Wiki implies links are editable, and these are not - might change to Read-only Links or Un-editable Links, so it is clear before you click on these that you are entering a workspace that does not conform to the stated goals of the Wiki environment. These spaces are owned by single, special individuals.

So does this mean you've figured out how to automatically load the Family pages from your gedcom and don't need me to continue copying from the WRG site into Wiki, or do you want me to start including these links on the pages as I convert them? I have three more children and all their children of Benjamin² to do and then I'm done with that path unless you want me to backtrack and add these links before moving on to another line. I think I understand how you set them up and could follow same format on pages I'm converting if that is what you want me to do.

- Andaleen 08:37, 14 February 2006 (PST)

Phoenix Format

Tim: In answer to your questions, it couldn't be simple!

• NO PAGES contain the title and author of the work. I put that above the navigation links and the border of the page for that reason. This is in analogy to the imported Pierce pages. The exact format of the author and title part is not important, so suit yourself on that. I also think we need to add breadcrumbs above the title and author, at the top of each page.
• PAGES iii, v, and vii have simple borders and no headings.
• PAGES iv and vi have no borders.
• PAGE viii is blank
• PAGE ix has nothing in the center, just the page number on the right.
• EVEN PAGES x to xx have the page number on the left and "The Whitneys" in the center.
• ODD PAGES xi to xxi have the page number on the right and "Of England." in the center.
• PAGE xxii has the page number on the left and "The Whitneys of England." in the center.
• PAGE 1 has blanks in the heading, but it is still there.
• EVEN NUMBERED PAGES 2 to 2474 contain "Eighth Generation." or the analogue in the center and the page number on the left.
• ODD NUMBERED PAGES 3 to 2475 contain "Whitney Family." in the center of the heading and the page number on the right. (I just fixed the example in the WRG sandbox which had the page number on the wrong side for page 1551.)
• PAGE 2476 is blank.
• The Index of Places (pages 2477 to 2526), the Index of Surnames (pages 2527 to 2737), and the Errata (pages 2738 to 2740) have a different format altogether. I'll try to generate example pages for each. We currently only have transcribed a small portion of the Index of Surnames, and none of the rest.
• CHART PAGES, such as p0028a.txt, have a simple border around the whole page and no heading. This one is bound between pages 28 and 29, and the back of the page is blank. Others are analogous. They are all sideways, since they are wider than they are tall, except for pxxiii.txt, which is vertical. A fixed-width font is mandatory for them, because of the way I have used ASCII characters to draw the lines. Possibly a different way could be devised to draw these charts not involving this device, but I haven't really tried to find a way to do that. My version of TMG has an add-on, something called Visual Chart Form, which can draw such charts, but whether they could be somehow incorporated into web pages, I just don't know.

Another issue: since the transcription is not finished, we need to create templates into which to fit the text of newly scanned and OCRed pages, even, odd, and index.

- Robert | Talk to me 10:54, 15 February 2006 (CST)

Databases, Continued

I very much like the links and references added to the pages like Ezra Whitney you've been working on. I did notice however the one time I tried to use references that even though I incremented the reference number thinking that is what tied it to its corresponding note, it did not seem to matter what number I put in, the display incremented by one in order of appearance (ie: I input ref 2^[1], then ref 1^[2], then ref 2 again^[3] because I wanted to use the same reference call out for two sources), however the display is 1, 2, and 3. So I quit trying to do anything except setup at least one or two refs as template samples on the pages I'm converting for others to use or to come back to. I was also not always sure why on the original site there seemed to be the same information seemingly repeated 2 or more times unless that was the old site's way of indicating multiple sources without including source details. For the most part I'm just transferring what is on original site as is and assuming you, Robert, others, or myself can come back and add references and notes and cleanup later.

The skin I chose to use in my preferences is 'Cologne Blue'. I think the pages I clicked on when I was looking around shifted me to 'MonoBook'. I see 'Cologne Blue' when I view Moses and John from Archives, but when I click on other of John's children or on Moses children, I get the other skin (note: I did not click on all of them).

When I was trying to review skins, I notice on my screen 'Simple' skin looks really bad - the side bar navigation and the main body of information overlap one another like a double image making both unreadable in the area where the side bar info resides. Also noticed on my layout one or two of the other skins which had the WRG logo in the upper left corner overlapped information in the main section and I could not read headers. Let me know if I need to take screen shots and try to email to you separately.

As for the links - what I was trying to convey was perhaps two sets of links, one set taking you to other editable links and the other clearly identifying that the links are for informational use only and not editable except by owner once there. It's not that big a deal. Like you I think if Wiki is used correctly, those gedcom links become less meaningful, or become almost mirror copies of the editable page that calls them - assuming people like you and me consolidate and cross reference conflicting information from each site into Wiki page, and assuming that the authors of each restricted site, reviews information and performs similar action on their own pages. I did notice that you added information to the bottom of the pages identifying owners and asking people to contact them if they think a change is needed, so that probably suffices. It's still may be confusing the first few times a person goes to those links, but will probably clear itself up the first time they try to edit and can't - they will look more closely at the message. I just thought it would be helpful to tell them in some manner before they clicked on link not to expect to edit info when they got there.

Thanks - Andaleen 09:00, 15 February 2006 (PST)

Phoenix Index Format

Tim: I think I've got a sample index page. See the WRG sandbox for the code.

Question: Why does <font size="-1"> seem not work on wiki pages?

- Robert | Talk to me 12:57, 15 February 2006 (CST)

Phoenix Format, Continued

Tim:

In general, that is a creditable effort! Comments:

1. I have changed the PhoenixHeading template somewhat.

2. Any words in the center portion of the header should be italicized. In this case, it is "Whitney Family."

3. While your templates work fine for this page, which begins with an "entry", they won't necessarily do the right thing for pages which begin with either a continuation of an entry, or with a new family, or with a new generation. Those which begin with a continuation of an entry will have nothing in the first and last column, at least in theory, and text in the middle. Those which begin with a new family will not have the separating horizontal rule above the names of the parents. Those which begin with a new generation have about an inch of white space, followed by "FOURTH GENERATION." (or the analogue) in larger capitals, centered, followed by a new family beginning without the horizontal rule.

That's all for now.

- Robert | Talk to me 10:12, 16 February 2006 (CST)

Phoenix Format, Continued

Tim:

Yes, the center part of the heading is ALWAYS in italics.

I see that passing no parameters to the entry template would work for the continuation situation.

We need a template for beginning a family without a horizontal rule. In addition we need either a template with a rule included, or a separate template with just the rule. Either of these approaches should work.

I tweaked the new generation template.

I also created an example of the Errata pages, of which there are only three. Since they have not yet been transcribed, it makes no sense to write a specialized bunch of code just for those three pages. Instead, I'll just do a custom coding job on them.

- Robert | Talk to me 13:22, 16 February 2006 (CST)

Cousins Marry - How/Where to report children

I just came across my first set of double cousins which made issue I'm discussing here stand out to me, although issue will exist anytime a cousin marries another cousin whether it be 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. See Gilbert N Watkins and Sarah Watkins. Gilbert N and Sarah Watkins mothers were sisters, Sarah and Esther Whitney, while their fathers were brothers, Nathan and James Watkins. I did not like the idea of maintaining data on children in two different pages, so I deleted the children from Sarah's page and just set up link back to Gilbert's. Take a look and let me know how you want to handle Family Group when cousins marry cousins. Whose page do we want to post children to (Father or Mother or Both)?

- Andaleen 16 Feb 2006 8:41 pm PST

Cousins Marry (part 2)

What you suggested made sense until I came to my next set of cousins. Patty Watkins, daughter of Esther Whitney married her cousin Fisher Whitney. I started to direct her to Fisher's page when I suddenly realized, she had a second marriage with children, and if I link her to Fisher with no page of her own, I have no home for second family.

- Andaleen 16 February 2006 9:42pm PST

Extracts

Tim:

All the Extracts are finished, as far as I can tell, except for Phoenix and the Pierce indexes! Whew!!

On to new projects. Next I intend to finish the Biographies, then start on the City Directories.

- Robert | Talk to me 15:02, 20 February 2006 (CST)

"Add a new page" Problem

Tim: On the WRG:Start_a_new_page page, the labels above the two windows and the action of the two buttons below are mismatched. The button under the Simple Version window gives you the Complete Version template, and vice versa. Either the labels should be switched, or the buttons should.

- Robert | Talk to me 18:40, 25 February 2006 (CST)

Links in Transcriptions/Extracts

Tim:

It occurred to me that putting links in ALL our transcriptions or extracts from names pointing to family group records may or may not be a good idea. As a case in point, consider the Pierce transcription. We already have links from some names to the Errors page, so there is a conflict there.

I don't have a solution. I am just pointing out that there may be a problem.

- Robert | Talk to me 07:07, 28 February 2006 (CST)

Rollbacks

Tim:

Thanks for pointing out that "feature" of rollbacks.

- Robert | Talk to me 10:33, 28 February 2006 (CST)

Pierce Edit

Tim:

I think we should find the source of these dates. If it is a family bible, for example, it should be posted under bibles. If it is from the vital records of Dummerston, it should be posted under vital records.

It makes you want to "protect" these pages.

- Robert | Talk to me 15:22, 1 March 2006 (CST)

Links

Tim:

Did you see my post on this? Probably I put it in the wrong place. Where would be a better place so that all those creating new family group record pages would see it?

- Robert | Talk to me 09:00, 2 March 2006 (CST)

Conflict in Links in Pierce

Tim:

As I mentioned in an earlier post, sometimes there is a link in the Pierce transcription from a name to the errors page. If we want to link from the name to that person's family group record instead, we have a conflict. In such cases, we could add something like "[ERROR!]" after the name, and make the link to the error page from that word. I think the mechanism is a reasonable solution, but would like your input as to just what to add.

Could it be as simple as just using the traffic danger sign graphic? If so, how do you create a link using a graphic instead of text? Does [[Archive:Errors in Pierce#67-1|[[Image:danger.jpg]]]] or some similar variant of that actually work?

Thoughts, please!

- Robert | Talk to me 10:15, 2 March 2006 (CST)

Error Links

Your solution to the image=link problem is good, but it is very much not obvious that the graphic IS a link. In HTML, a graphic which is a link gets surrounded by a blue border, just like text gets a blue underline. That way, one can easily recognize that this image is not just an image, but also a link. Your solution lacks this feature. I, for one, would never think of clicking on the danger graphic.

I rather suppose that the above is not fixable, so I now prefer the idea of using some text for the error link. Perhaps the word shouldn't be "error", but "correction" instead.

- Robert | Talk to me 12:20, 2 March 2006 (CST)

Printable Version

Tim:

Have you looked at the Printable Version of any of the pages using the {{ref|#}} construct? Yike!!

- Robert | Talk to me 18:26, 2 March 2006 (CST)

Why I Don't Need a Template for "Under Construction"

Tim:

I understand how to make and use templates. I don't need one in this situation because of how I am creating these new pages:

1. Find a link to the person's page from the parent's page.
2. Click on it, opening a blank edit window.
3. Go to my word processor, where I have my own custom copy of the family group template.
4. Copy the whole file.
5. Go back to the blank edit window, and paste.
6. Edit the file until satisfied.
7. Delete the top two lines.
8. Save.
9. Edit "Robert's Tasks" to record a task as "DONE".

You see that it doesn't matter whether the "Under Construction" code appears on the top line of my file or whether your new Uc template does. I'm not retyping that line over and over. I actually thought about using one of the colored divboxes rather than what I did, and I may still do so.

One advantage of doing it this way, rather than using the "Add a new page" link in the navigation box, is that I can't misspell the name of the file I'm adding in the name box. You may have noticed that I have deleted several duplicative files, some of which were inadvertently generated that way.

My custom template is somewhat different from the one at the web site. In particular, it has twelve children instead of four, and more reference/note constructs. I find it easier to delete extra children than to add more. I may also create a separate one for female heads, with pronouns of the opposite gender and daughter/son swapped, but haven't done that yet.

- Robert | Talk to me 12:03, 16 March 2006 (CST)

Backups

Tim:

Since our method of working has changed with the new website, I realized that I will no longer have a mirror of those files on my home computer. This means that the burden falls on you to do a careful job of backing up those files regularly, also keeping the backups safe (preferably at a different geographic location). I assume you are already doing this, but I would like you to describe to me your efforts in this area.

- Robert | Talk to me 06:15, 21 March 2006 (CST)

Printable Version

Tim:

You wrote

"Robert: This has been solved. You may need to force a reload of the page to see the change."

I'm still seeing the problem. Look again.

- Robert | Talk to me 06:32, 21 March 2006 (CST)

Bull / Baull

Robert:

I seem to remember something about a Bull / Baull woman in the information that Paul reed and I were corresponding about. Could you check the file that I sent to you and see what the name of the woman was that ran the inn that the Christopher Marlowe was killed in?

Thank you!

- Tim Doyle | Talk to me 11:52, 21 March 2006 (CST)

Eleanor (Whitney) Bull

Tim:

I've sent you information on her by e-mail.

- Robert | Talk to me 12:32, 21 March 2006 (CST)

St. Mary Aldermary

Tim:

I love what you've done with that page! Kudos!!

I also see that Smith and Sanborn made an error in calling the second Mary "Margaret." That settles that!

- Robert | Talk to me 16:17, 27 March 2006 (CST)

Printable Version

Tim:

I use Mozilla Firefox v1.0.7. For example on Benjamin² Whitney's page, in the place where {{ref|1}} is found in the source, I see "[1] (http://wiki.whitneygen.org/wrg/index.php/Family:Whitney%2C_Benjamin_%281643-1723%29#endnote_1)" (without the quotation marks, all as a superscript) which is, of course, the web address of the place to which the reference points, namely the first note construct, enclosed in parentheses. It is the same after every use of the reference construct. I expected to see only "[1]" (without the quotation marks, as a superscript).

Everything else seems acceptable for a printable version.

If you can't eliminate this artifact, I would consider the printable version option to be useless.

- Robert | Talk to me 19:15, 27 March 2006 (CST)

My Wiki Expectations

Tim:

I'm glad you asked this question now, since I have seen many of the advantages of this structure. I also see a few disadvantages. On balance, this is a BIG WIN.

• Ad: Everyone can add information.
• Dis: There is a learning curve on how to do that, and it's more than many users will choose to learn.
• Dis: The wiki syntax is quite different from HTML, so even web people have the learning curve (although not as steep).
• Dis: Someone has to review each change to check the syntax, maintain the correct style, and enforce proper documentation.

• Ad: You are a wiki guru, and can be consulted in case of questions.
• Dis: You are the sole wiki guru, as well as webmaster, so there is a huge problem with single-point failure: if you are killed by a meteorite, a tornado, or a snakebite, the web site is in deep trouble. With the old web site, I had a mirror, so could bring up the website in my own web space if necessary, or could arrange for a new host without loss of any data.

• Ad: Cross-linking between sources and family groups is relatively easy.
• Dis: Creating family groups becomes a bottleneck. Andaleen is doing yeoman service here!
• Dis: Documenting the family groups becomes a second bottleneck. I've been working hard on the first three generations, and am almost done. I'm not sure I want to continue into the fourth.
• Dis: Cross-linking is a third bottleneck. This involves MANY edits of our source material, each minor. I've fallen behind with this on the first three generations, I know.

• Ad: Templates are good!
• Dis: They are near the end of the learning curve, so only you and I have any chance of writing new ones right now (and I'm not too sure about me!).

• Ad: The search engine exists, and works well for simple searches.
• Dis: I am constantly missing a strong search engine. For some searches, I even go back to the old website and use Google, a strategy I devised because the old search engine was also rather weak. This will become less and less possible as the new web site mutates, and diverges from the old one.

Features I really like: What Links Here, hiding e-mail addresses, ease of uploading images. I like the idea of a discussion page attached to every page, but I haven't found an effective way to use them yet.

- Robert | Talk to me 20:48, 27 March 2006 (CST)

Isleworth Parish Register

Tim:

I'm quite sure you mean March 25th (Lady Day) and not 21st for the first day of the year. See, for example, this page.

I have made what I think are the appropriate changes to the web page. Since the Gregorian calendar did not exist until 1582, the Julian calendar was the only one in use, so writing 1575/6 is anachronistic, and 1575[/6] is probably also improper, so I am leaving it as 1575. For dates after 1582 and before 1752, I have used 1623[/4], for example.

- Robert | Talk to me 09:12, 28 March 2006 (CST)

Importing Status

Tim:

I have finished sourcing and cleaning up the first three generations of descendants of John¹ Whitney, and my line to the fifth generation (where the names change to Flagg/Hardy and Billing/Hayward). I also have finished converting the Combined Index to Massachusetts Vital Records.

There are some small, miscellaneous tasks left. Whenever I find a link in the Archives which is red, I will try to create a page to turn that link blue.

We are running out of big tasks. The next one, in my opinion, should be the Phoenix import. What can I do to help expedite that?

Another big task which needs a policy decision is what we should do with the photos posted to the old web site. I'd be happy to upload the images, name them, and supply some text, but how will they be indexed?

- Robert | Talk to me 15:45, 1 April 2006 (CST)

Census Index Problem

Tim:

Have you seen this?

- Robert | Talk to me 13:50, 2 April 2006 (EDT)

Unattached Families

Tim:

What do you think we should do with unattached family groups? In addition to creating a Family Group Record for the family, if we don't know the Whitney parents, should we have some special way to identify such? Would a category be the best way, or a page with links to all of them? How about conjectured identifications?

So many questions, so few answers!

- Robert | Talk to me 14:22, 3 April 2006 (EDT)

It Finally Happened!

Tim:

I have two Mary Whitney family groups, both born in 1744 and last record found in 1788. One married Samuel Whitmore of Gorham, ME, the other Elijah Gibbs and Edward Scott of Westminster and Fitchburg, MA. They would both be listed as Family:Whitney, Mary (1744-a1788). How should we differentiate between them so as to have a unique name for each family group?

- Robert | Talk to me 08:26, 8 April 2006 (EDT)

Sources in Footnotes

Tim:

Often we have several sources for an event. For example, we have multiple sources for John¹ Whitney's second marriage to Judah (-----) Clements. Of course we cite Watertown Records, which is the best one. What other sources, if any, should we cite? All are probably eventually derived from that one. Putting links from all the sources back to John's page makes sense, but I don't think we need links from his page to all those sources. Thoughts?

- Robert | Talk to me 10:17, 9 April 2006 (EDT)

Duplicate Birth and Death Years

Tim:

I think we can use the day and month of the birth date, say (31 Mar 1744-a1788) versus (19 Sep 1744-a1788). That will work for this case, and probably for any case we are likely to encounter. Of course, there is no guarantee that it'll work ALWAYS ...

- Robert L. Ward | Talk to me 13:19, 11 April 2006 (EDT)

Reciprocal Links

Tim:

I agree that reciprocal links are unnecessary, especially because of the "What Links Here" feature (which I really like!).

- Robert L. Ward | Talk to me 13:23, 11 April 2006 (EDT)

Renaming Files

Tim:

Renaming a file, as I understand it, involves using the Redirect feature, which you have warned me has problems. My method is to copy the file to one with the new name, then changing all the links to it to use the new name, and finally to delete the old file. I understand that the history is lost at that point, so that has a problem, too. Is there something I have missed, or misunderstood?

- Robert L. Ward | Talk to me 08:42, 12 April 2006 (EDT)

Importing Photos

Tim:

It seems to me that somehow we should keep the original photos, no matter how large, somewhere. Perhaps the versions we display could be smaller and cropped more neatly, with a link in case someone wants the original picture in all its high-resolution glory.

I have PhotoShop 5.0 Limited Edition, with which I can create the new versions. What formats (.jpg, .gif, .bmp, ...), file sizes (in kB), and picture dimensions (in inches) would you recommend?

I would suggest having the original picture in one file, and the more manageable version in a second file. Then we could have a page for the picture, showing the modified picture, accompanying text, and a link to the original picture (with a warning about the size). Finally, we could have an index page, with links to each of the last-mentioned pages above, and a VERY short description as the link. Of course, we have the issue of names for the three files . . . . (I never liked WRG00031.jpg and its analogues, anyway, although it had the advantage of simplicity.)

Thoughts?

- Robert L. Ward | Talk to me 10:42, 12 April 2006 (EDT)

Photo Importing Progress

I'm doing this now. I encountered an anomaly at WRG00049, which is alleged to be a death certificate, but is actually an obituary of someone else. Similarly, WRG00051 is mismatched with it's text. Also, the .jpg file for WRG00054 is missing. Should we just change the accompanying text, or should we contact the owner?

I didn't have a good way to name the photos, so, at least for the time being, I'm keeping the numbering scheme. We can change later if we decide on a different plan.

- Robert L. Ward | Talk to me 14:58, 21 April 2006 (EDT)

Real User Names

Is there a way to get a list of the real names of all the users and their corresponding usernames? If we want to change the e-mail links on the lineage pages to username links, I think we need that capability.

- Robert L. Ward | Talk to me 10:24, 23 April 2006 (EDT)

Bug in "What links here"?

When I go to this page

and click on "What links here", it tells me that no page links to that image. On the other hand Family:Whitney, Charles Field (1831-a1900) does link there. What gives?

- Robert L. Ward | Talk to me 10:34, 1 May 2006 (EDT)

Listings of Pages

You've added an excellent feature. Thanks for thinking of it!

- Robert L. Ward | Talk to me 13:24, 3 May 2006 (EDT)

Photos

I finished migrating the Photos part of the archives to this web site. I've also created a facility for adding a photo to the archives. See Archive:Add Photo. I'm very unsure that I did the coding for the text box and button correctly, so please check it out for me. Any revisions or improvements would be gladly accepted!

- Robert L. Ward | Talk to me 13:24, 3 May 2006 (EDT)

Listing of Pages

Your listing is nice, but isn't more or less the same functionality available by going to the Category:Vermont page?

- Robert L. Ward | Talk to me 14:28, 3 May 2006 (EDT)

Listing of Pages

The new Vermont page is nice, but you have lost the Subcategory functionality in replacing the old one with it.

- Robert L. Ward | Talk to me 14:40, 3 May 2006 (EDT)

Subcategories

I saw them after you added them today.

- Robert L. Ward | Talk to me 14:48, 3 May 2006 (EDT)

Error in Pierce

The error has already been linked from the erroneous lineages of the brothers to Archive:The Descendants of John Whitney, Errors#213-1 and Archive:The Descendants of John Whitney, Errors#213-2. I have just added links from those places to the Archive:Who were Calvin and Haynes Whitney page for the fuller discussion.

Any errors found in Pierce should be linked from a [NOTE] insertion at the place of the error, to Archive:The Descendants of John Whitney, Errors#PAGE-ORDINAL. On that page should be an explanation of what the facts are that contradict Pierce, plus a link back to the person in the text whose treatment contains the error.

I stopped trying to find all errors in the middle of page 129 of Pierce, where the family groups of the fifth generation fathers end. Whatever other errors are there are ones concerning the sixth generation sons carried over to their own sketches, such as this one, or others discovered more or less by accident.

- Robert L. Ward | Talk to me 20:49, 6 May 2006 (EDT)

Census Index Pages

I see that you have been making excellent progress on importing the census index pages. That's great! I noticed that on WRG:Website Conversion Project you have marked 1900-1930 as DONE, yet on Archive:Census Records there are no links to any of these except Puerto Rico in 1920. Presumably you meant to put IN PROGRESS instead of DONE.

Are you just bringing the existing index pages over from the old web site, or are you using Ancestry's indexes, too, and merging the two?

- Robert L. Ward | Talk to me 09:47, 8 May 2006 (EDT)

Nested Templates?

Can I call a template by passing its call in through an argument of another template? I was trying to make a two-column footnote template, and pass the contents of the two columns. The contents themselves contained a template for a footnote span tag, number, and text. This failed, probably because I haven't much of an idea what I'm doing. See Phoenix Test for what I was trying to achieve, but done without templates.

- Robert L. Ward | Talk to me 18:48, 11 June 2006 (EDT)

Many thanks for the interest. I managed to locate the info you mentioned. Many thanks

Printed Version

Your suggestion of upgrading to Firefox 1.5.0.4 seems to have worked. Of course, I really don't know why, but who cares?

- Robert L. Ward | Talk to me 14:18, 18 June 2006 (EDT)

My Photograph

Tim:

I have many much more pressing matters to deal with than posting my photograph on my User page.

By the way, I see that you have changed the tab label from "edit" to "edit this page". This is an improvement, in my view.

- Robert - Talk to me 13:37, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

Sample Page from Pierce

Tim:

A creditable effort! I noticed three things immediately:

1. The name of the page should be "Family:Whitney, James Scolly (1811-1878)"
2. The names of the page links for the lineage should all begin with "Family:Whitney, ...", and likewise for the children.
3. Titles shouldn't be part of the page names. The person wasn't born with them, they may change over time (military promotions, being named a deacon of a church, being knighted, etc.), and one man may hold more than one at the same time (Deacon and Captain, for example).

It's hard to believe that the entire five-page narrative is a single paragraph!!

By the way, the categories are well done, but don't conform to the model I have been using. I use [[Category:Massachusetts]] + [[Category:Norfolk County, Massachusetts]] + [[Category:Brookline, Norfolk County, Massachusetts]], rather than [[Category:Brookline, Massachusetts]]. Of course this will be really hard to generate automagically, since the county is not included in Pierce's text. When I generated the Index of Places for Pierce, I had to find out the counties for each town in the index, which I did, with just a handful of exceptions (places I couldn't find in gazetteers and searches). Perhaps you could use that index to help with this situation.

I also see that [[Category:St., New York]] appears. Probably it comes from "37th St., New York" mentioned in the text. Probably we'll have to replace things like that with [[New York, New York County, New York]], etc., by hand.

- Robert - Talk to me 21:54, 26 June 2006 (CDT)

Sample Page from Pierce (cont.)

Tim:

You said, "Titles will be a problem as that's how Pierce has them. I'll have to see if I can pick them out one by one." Here's the main criterion: if the first word of the subject's name ends in a period, it's a title. I don't think there are any names like S. Whitney Phoenix or Sir Robert Whitney as subjects.

Also, "Also, what county should I add - the county at the time of the event, or the current-day county?" That's a policy issue which I don't believe has a standard solution. I have used the current-day county, as it makes finding a place easier with current maps, and the records are likely to be in the current county seat. It also avoids issues such as towns which existed in areas before there was a county there. It also avoid using "Massachusetts Bay Colony" and "Plymouth Colony" instead of the state of Massachusetts, and the fact that parts of current Vermont were at one time claimed by Massachusetts, New Hampshire, and New York, all at the same time.

Further comments:

"5. SubjectName can sometimes be a link to an error page." I have been changing these links, adding the word "[NOTE]" after the name and making that the link. I have finished the first part of the book (through p. 129), which has the most of these, but there are still many left to be done. I'll get started right away on finishing that job.

"8. Add Childrens' surnames." The surname is ALWAYS Whitney.

I've just received your e-mail and will be checking out the data. Perhaps I'll have more comments later.

- Robert - Talk to me 08:57, 27 June 2006 (CDT)

Another Pierce Issue

Tim:

Check out the bottom of page 176. There is an example where the children are arranged in TWO columns instead of one. This occurs occasionally elsewhere. I have no idea how you should deal with this. Possibly it's a hand-edit situation.

- Robert - Talk to me 09:42, 27 June 2006 (CDT)

Re: Pierce

Tim:

You wrote: "I dealt with ... improper formatting; improper spelling (Witney, Whtney) ...." If you report these to me, I'll make the changes on the wiki pages.

You also wrote: "You said 'I have been changing these links, adding the word "[NOTE]" ... I'll get started right away on finishing that job.'" I'm now up through page 206, and will continue as time permits. You continued with, "I guess I should mention that I am using the files originally imported to the wiki, not the current versions." Glad you mentioned that. I didn't understand that.

You went on, "I had envisioned needing to manually go through the Error page so that adjustments could be made to these family pages (rather than just linking to an explanation). Thoughts?" Now that's something I could usefully do. I'll take that on.

ALBERT APPLETON (WHITNEY) FAY and other name-change cases were something I had not seen in Pierce heretofore. Always a chance to learn something new!

"Would you like a fresh one so you're not reporting things that have already been fixed?" Yes, that would be good, thanks.

- Robert - Talk to me 11:46, 27 June 2006 (CDT)

Pierce Notes

Tim:

1. The dates for page names and links are not working right. John¹ Whitney isn't (1659-1673), Joshua² Whitney isn't (1635-1666), and Cornelius³ Whitney isn't (1715-1715).
2. Footnotes in the original are handled badly.
3. When a child's name is a link to the error file, this is handled badly.
4. De-hyphenation reuniting a word split between two lines is still not working well.

More later.

- Robert - Talk to me 17:21, 27 June 2006 (CDT)

More Pierce

Tim:

How about just deleting footnotes entirely?

Child's name is a link:

1. See Alice, alleged daughter of Joshua² Whitney on his page. There is a problem with bolding and the link being intertwined. (Of course, the footnote confuses the matter, but I don't think it caused the problem.)
2. See Moses³ Whitney, son John⁴.

De-hyphenation:

1. See the same Alice, under her children, Bath- sheba.
2. Under Benjamin³ Whitney (1660-1736) [John², John¹], his daughter Ruth, Ken- Dall.

I noticed that each of these were inside a link text.

New problems:

1. See Joseph³ Whitney (1651-1702) [John², John¹], end of children. There two children are somehow conflated.
2. Same Ruth⁴ Whitney as above, her narrative seems to be messed up somehow.

- Robert - Talk to me 21:37, 27 June 2006 (CDT)

Pre- or Post-Import?

Tim:

If the only issues we find are related to error-links, then we can fix them manually. There are only a few links from child-number Roman numerals, all having to do with missing children. (I couldn't think of where else to put the link for that kind of problem.)

By the way, in the wiki version of the transcription, I have now finished making all the error-links be from the string "[NOTE]" inserted in an appropriate place.

- Robert - Talk to me 08:44, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

Children of Daughters

Tim:

That's perfect! Excellent!

- Robert - Talk to me 09:39, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

Abbreviations

Tim:

Your list of geographic abbreviations did include all the states except Alaska, which did not appear abbreviated in our transcription on the old web site. Please add to it the following, which I found there:

 'D/. C/.' => 'District of Columbia',
 'D/.C/.' => 'District of Columbia',
 'Penn/.' => 'Pennsylvania',
 'L/. I/.' => 'Long Island',
 'L/.I/.' => 'Long Island',
 'Can/.' => 'Canada',
 'Ca/.' => 'Canada',
 'N/. S/.' => 'Nova Scotia',
 'N/.S/.' => 'Nova Scotia',
 'Que/.' => 'Quebec',
 'Mex/.' => 'Mexico',
 'S/. A/.' => 'South America',  [but not S.A.]  [but U. S. A. = United States Army !!!]
 'W/. I/.' => 'West Indies',  [but not W.I.]

There may be more. This is all I could think of and could find. I also found that some transcriber(s) chose to use postal abbreviations (grrrr!):

 'CT' => 'Connecticut',
 'IA' => 'Iowa',
 'IL' => 'Illinois',
 'IN' => 'Indiana',
 'MA' => 'Massachusetts',
 'ME' => 'Maine',
 'MI' => 'Michigan',
 'MO' => 'Missouri',
 'NC' => 'North Carolina',
 'NJ' => 'New Jersey',
 'NY' => 'New York',
 'OH' => 'Ohio',
 'PA' => 'Pennsylvania',
 'RI' => 'Rhode Island',
 'VT' => 'Vermont',
 'WA' => 'Washington',
 'WI' => 'Wisconsin',

I hope this helps.

- Robert - Talk to me 07:06, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

Page Names

Tim:

The list at Sandbox4 is discouraging. Some is due to Old Style/New Style dates. Some is due to us having more information about birth and death dates that Pierce did, including using "after", "before", "circa", and "say" dates. There's quite a lot of work to do to fix all of those!

- Robert - Talk to me 07:12, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

Two More Changes

Tim:

I made two further changes to Sandbox4. Heaven only knows how you'll deal with them! Look for the word "conglomeration" to find them.

Otherwise, I suppose we're ready to go!

- Robert - Talk to me 20:59, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

Some Dates Not Right

Tim:

I see that some dates are converted to 30 Aug 1802 and others are left as Aug 30, 1802. I don't know why that happens, or whether or not you want to correct that.

- Robert - Talk to me 21:36, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

130 Years Old!

Tim:

We'll have to move Family:Whitney, Phinehas (1740-1870) to Family:Whitney, Phinehas (1740-1812). It's interesting to see why that was generated!

- Robert - Talk to me 21:46, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

Andaleen

Tim:

I haven't told her, and I don't think you have either. Probably she hasn't a clue. I think you should tell her, since it was your idea and mostly your work, so you have bragging rights!

- Robert - Talk to me 22:00, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

Duplicate Names

Tim:

We have a problem with duplicate page names. See Family:Whitney, William (?-?) for example. Two such pages were generated, and one overwrote the other.

- Robert - Talk to me 22:06, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

Sewing Together Gens 5 and 6

Tim:

I began the process, working alphabetically using the Family Groups list.

I found the first problem at Family:Whitney, Abiezer Holbrook (1794-1865), whose father Family:Whitney, Nathan (1768-1849) was given the generation number 1, and no further lineage. AHW was given generation number 2, and his children 3. Now Nathan has a perfectly good page, with correct lineage, and on that page, he has generation number 5. I fixed this particular instance, but surely there are more of the same kind. Here's one: Family:Whitney, Abram Hinckley (1817-1851).

The second problem was at Family:Whitney, Abner (1807-1888), where the page actually contains the information for Zachariah Leach Whitney. Both appear on Pierce p. 412. Abner's is the first family on the page, and Zachariah's is the second. That one I didn't fix.

I've finished given names A through C. Will continue later.

- Robert - Talk to me 06:51, 30 June 2006 (CDT)

Family Groups

Tim:

Great, well done, and about time. I was starting to worry that it was never going to get done if it depended on me doing 2-10 per week which is about all I've been able to do recently do to work load and some family obligations. I'm on vacation till week of July 9th and will review more then.

Mass Edits

Tim:

Prime candidates for mass edits using the bot would be the following sections of Pierce Conversion Project:

• Overwritten Family Data
• Lineage Breaks
• Merged Pages

As I progress through the sewing, if I find more, I'll put them in those sections.

Also, I notice that Andaleen has put the generation numbers in lineages outside the links. The bot should replace all instances of"]]¹" with "¹]]", and likewise for generations 2, 3, and 4. Similarly, in her lists of children, she has used " Surname''']]^X" instead of "^X Surname''']]", and " Surname'''^X" instead of "^X Surname'''", where X is a generation number digit and Surname is a string of letters.

On all the Family: pages you could replace "the Whitney Research Group" and/or "The Whitney Research Group" with "the [[Whitney Research Group]]"

- Robert - Talk to me 10:47, 4 July 2006 (CDT)

Half-numbers

Tim:

I've discovered a new source of annoyance! There are many numbers in Pierce ending in " 1/2". I found 21 of these, of which only one is carried forward: 4814 1/2, Eprhaim Whitney. Of course he wasn't caught as the beginning of a family group, nor as a child in his father's family. The other 20 weren't caught as children in their father's family, either. I also found one number ending in " 1/4"! There are also Roman number child ordinals of the form "vii 1/2." I suppose that's to squeeze them in between vii and viii. I found 7 of those. I'll try to check them all out myself.

- Robert - Talk to me 10:10, 6 July 2006 (CDT)

Comment Line

Tim:

Isn't the removal of the comment line a perfect use of the bot?

- Robert - Talk to me 10:19, 6 July 2006 (CDT)

Location Categories

Tim:

While you are at it, keep a list of locations which weren't found in the geographic index but were in the import, along with the page numbers where found. We may have to deal with these on an individual basis. That way we can find two- or three-word locations, like Cottage City, Massachusetts, or Fond du Lac, Wisconsin.

In any case, don't start until we have all the issues from the Pierce Conversion Project done. We may be creating new pages or changing the names of pages during that process.

- Robert - Talk to me 10:35, 6 July 2006 (CDT)

Census Indexes Versus Census Records

Tim:

I had an idea that the census indexes should be separate from the census record transcripts. This isn't so on the 1790 pages, for example, with the data included directly in the index. This is mandatory for 1850 and beyond, and for the sake of consistency, probably should be so for the earlier years, too. Then we can put anchors at each family group, and make links from the Family Group Records to the records themselves, rather than to the indexes, and from the indexes to the records themselves, as you've done with the 1880 census records. Also reverse links from the records and the indexes back to the Family Group Records can be made.

- Robert - Talk to me 11:05, 6 July 2006 (CDT)

Location Categories

Tim:

Another approach would be:

• Scan the Special:Categories page, finding ones which seem to be syntactically ill-formed.
• Use the geographical index to find ones which may be multiple-word names, and ones which may be misspelled (such as Action, Massachusetts), that don't appear in the index.
• Invalid categories will have to be resolved individually and manually. A list of these categories could be put on the Pierce Conversion Project page to be dealt with by us.
• Deal with possible ambiguities in valid category names (such as Braintree versus New Braintree, Massachusetts), again using the geographical index. This may require a scan of the pages for such a category to determine which of the possibilities apply to each page.
• For each category with a missing county, use the geographical index to find the county name.
• Go to each of those category pages, and pick up the names of the pages using that category. That will give you a list of the edits that need to be done for that category.
• Collect and sort the lists of those edits, creating a master list sorted by page name.
• Invoke the bot to make all the edits.

- Robert - Talk to me 06:47, 7 July 2006 (CDT)

Abbreviations and Poston

Tim:

Here are a few I noticed:

• unm. --> unmarried (may be end of sentence, too)
• No. --> North
• So. --> South
• Theo. --> Theodore
• U. South America --> United States Army (or U. S. A., as you prefer)

I did notice Mike Poston's work. Perhaps you could get him to improve the page for Jabez's father, Phineas, about whom he knows far more that Pierce knew. In the process, he might learn the syntax we use. Then he should add pages for the other descendants of Phineas.

- Robert - Talk to me 10:28, 7 July 2006 (CDT)

Changes Complete?

Tim:

I've finished everything I know how to do on Pierce Conversion Project. Hooray! I also found all the family groups with two children on the same line, and fixed them, too. Is there anything else to do besides the minor issues and first five generations, or are we actually done?

- Robert - Talk to me 21:20, 7 July 2006 (CDT)

Pierce Places

Tim:

Should I make any corrections there, or just tell you about them?

- Robert - Talk to me 09:45, 9 July 2006 (CDT)

Canadian Counties?

Tim:

I can supply county names for places in Canada. Do we want to do that, or is the province name enough? I notice that some places have them, others don't.

- Robert - Talk to me 09:49, 9 July 2006 (CDT)

John Whitney of Gorsington

Tim:

All you have written is stuff I already was aware of. I agree with everything you said with one exception. I haven't found a credible source for the existence of John Whitney, second son of Robert and Alice (Vaughan) Whitney of Whitney. It was in Carolyn Winch's database, without a source. That makes it somewhat suspect. Certainly there is nothing in Melville to support it. I put it on Robert's page anyway, with hopes that someone could turn up a source.

There are quite a few other places where I can't confirm what was in that database, too. Who knows where she got her information?! Possibly the LDS web site <gr-r-r-r-r>.

- Robert - Talk to me 13:58, 9 July 2006 (CDT)

Royal Ancestry of Whitney of Clifford

Tim:

I found the following line:

1. Edward III, King of England (1312-1377), m. Philippe of Hainault (1311-1369)
2. John of Gaunt (1340-1399), m. Katherine Roet (c1350-1403)
3. Henry Beaufort (c1375-1477), had mistress Alice FitzAlan (b1382-b1415)
4. Joan Beaufort (c1403-c1453), m. Sir Edward Stradling (c1389-1453)
5. Sir Henry Stradling (c1424-a1477), m. Elizabeth Herbert (c1427-?)
6. Jane Stradling (?-?), m. Henry Parry (?-?)
7. Miles Parry (?-?), m. Alice Milbourne (?-?)
8. Sybil Parry (?-?), m. James Whitney of Clifford (s1520-1564)
9. the later Whitneys of Clifford

Alice FitzAlan was herself a descendant of King Henry III. I haven't pursued this much further. It's possible there are other royal connections.

- Robert - Talk to me 15:15, 9 July 2006 (CDT)

Royal Ancestry of Whitney of Clifford

Tim:

I found the following line:

1. Edward III, King of England (1312-1377), m. Philippe of Hainault (1311-1369)
2. John of Gaunt (1340-1399), m. Katherine Roet (c1350-1403)
3. Henry Beaufort (c1375-1477), had mistress Alice FitzAlan (b1382-b1415)
4. Joan Beaufort (c1403-c1453), m. Sir Edward Stradling (c1389-1453)
5. Sir Henry Stradling (c1424-a1477), m. Elizabeth Herbert (c1427-?)
6. Jane Stradling (?-?), m. Henry Parry (?-?)
7. Miles Parry (?-?), m. Alice Milbourne (?-?)
8. Sybil Parry (?-?), m. James Whitney of Clifford (s1520-1564)
9. the later Whitneys of Clifford

Alice FitzAlan was herself a descendant of King Henry III. I haven't pursued this much further. It's possible there are other royal connections.

For the Parry family, see Parry Family History.

- Robert - Talk to me 15:16, 9 July 2006 (CDT)

Texas Land Grants

Tim: Thanks for all the good information. This is great I feel like a man who has been stumbling through a dark tunnel and now I can see a light, and it is not a train. I still havent been able to upload the documents yet. I havent been able to get back to the discussion group page where we fist made contact either. as I use this program more I will be better at it I hope. Thanks again for the info. and I have gotten Lois McCoin on line now too. Tex ( Jess)

I am now tring to send 1 of 8 pages of Whitney Texas land grant documents. as I am on dialup it may take sometime. I hope it goes where it needs to go.

I sent 2 pics of the land grant front and back. I dont know if they went thru or not let me know if you get them

these jpg s are large so it may take some time

land records

Tim

 We finally got the land grant records on line.  One is extremely large.  Please let me know if I need to reupload it.