User talk:Bradrockwood

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Welcome!

Brad,

Thank you for registering as a user on the Whitney Research Group website. Thanks also for giving your Whitney line of descent from Daniel and Arvilla (Marsh) Whitney.

Please consider creating a family group page for this couple.

I regret to say that I do not know who Daniel's parents were. There are, however, some lines of research which I can suggest for you.

Daniel Whitney served in the War of 1812. You could see whether or not he applied for and/or was granted a pension for that service. Applications sometimes contain valuable genealogical information.

Daniel lived first in Oneida Co., NY. There were two families listed in the 1800 census there who had males aged 0-9 who might have been him. (There were others, but we know enough about them to eliminate them as possibilities.) The heads of household are Aaron Whitney of Rome and Samuel Whitney of Westmoreland. See the extracted records. Unfortunately, we know nothing about either of these men. Oneida County was formed from Herkimer in 1798, and Herkimer from Montgomery in 1791. There is no record of these men in the 1790 census of Montgomery County. There is a possible Samuel Whitney in 1790 in Halfmoon, Saratoga Co., NY, who might be the same as the man in Westmoreland later, but he, too, is a mystery. There is no possible Aaron Whitney in the 1790 census. No trace of either is found in Oneida or Jefferson Counties in the 1820 census.

Every town and county in New York has an historian, paid by the state. Their job is to collect and preserve the history of their particular jurisdiction. Part of that deals with the families of the area. You could write to the historians of the places where you know Daniel lived to inquire if they can assist.

Good luck with your research. Please keep us informed of your progress, if any.

Robert - Talk to me 13:27, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Re: Daniel and Arvilla (Marsh) Whitney

Brad,

Thank you for your long note on the above, and your research.

As you pointed out, Job Whitney in the 1810 census of New York seems to be identified sufficiently to make the link to his family group page, and vice versa, so I have done that.

You make a fair case for your Daniel being a son of Samuel Whitney (1749-1822). The main reason against this is that the book by S. Whitney Phoenix does not include him with the other children on pages 169 through 172. It was compiled in the 1870s by corresponding with descendants, and has proven quite accurate, especially in the later generations. I agree that the census records show a male child living in the family who does not correspond to any of the known ten children. That is suggestive, but not conclusive. That boy could have been an adoptive son, a foster son, or a grandson (I thought of apprentice, too, but probably not when under the age of 10).

It's a theory, but needs a lot more substantiation. You could try to find a probate record for Samuel to see if it mentions your Daniel or not. There is a Samuel Whitney of Kirkland, Oneida Co., NY, who left a will (Oneida Co. Surrogate Court Will Books, vol. 8, p. 1), who may be this man, although the date seems to be too late. Also, I repeat the suggestions made before about military pension records and local historians.

Good luck in your search!

Robert - Talk to me 11:04, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

DNA

Brad - I saw the messages that you and Robert exchanged with regards to your line. One additional option would be to have yourself DNA tested. This would quickly allow you to determine if you were a descendant of the immigrants John, Henry, or one of the other branches. We have had several known descendants of each of the major immigrant lines tested, and we now know the DNA signatures. This would quickly eliminate a large number of families and allow you to concentrate on a smaller subset. Information can be found on our DNA page.

- Tim Doyle - Talk to me 18:03, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Daniel Whitney Page

Brad,

You have done an excellent job of creating a family group page! I have looked it over carefully, and have made a few minor changes.

Then I added several categories at the bottom of the page. These can be used to find all pages which share a common property. Most are geographic categories, and they point to all pages on which someone is said to have lived there. The "Parentage Unknown" category gives a list of all families for which the parentage of the head isn't known. (There is also a "Parentage Conjectured" category.)

I also changed the link to the 1830 census record by adding "#151" to the page address. This points not just to that census page, but to a particular line on it. That is the line which appears just after the so-called "anchor" "<span id="151"></span>".

I also added a link from your name in the copyright line to your user page.

I hope these changes meet with your approval. If you want to discuss them, or anything else, I am available.

Robert - Talk to me 14:11, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Daniel Whitney Page, II

Brad,

Yes, it's O.K. (even desirable), whenever you create a new Family: page, to add a line to the appropriate Whitneys by Given Name page. If you don't, I'd have to.

Adding pages for Daniel and Arvilla (Marsh) Whitney's children would be a plus. As you do that, link the father to the children and vice versa.

A lineage string should be included, even if it is very short. I wouldn't use generation number superscripts, since we don't know the proper number to insert. If we ever connect Daniel to one of the immigrants, then we can modify the lineage strings and add generation numbers for him and his descendants.

For your information, I have adopted the following convention. If a child married and had children, then a page can be created for that child and family. If a child not in the previous category has a lot of information available (how much is a subjective judgment having to do with readability of the parents' page), then a page can be created for that child. If such a page is created, I include only birth data and the name or names of the spouse or spouses (if any), on the parents' page, along with the link to the child's page. In cases where no page is created for the child, I include whatever I know about the child on the parents' page.

I also use the adverbs "probably", "possibly", "perhaps", "apparently", and so on, to qualify items of which I am not certain. I use "about" or "circa" for dates I have some reason to believe are close to the right one, and "say" when I am just guessing.

I hope this all makes sense to you. Feel free to write again if I can help further.

- Robert Ward - Talk to me 19:17, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Daniel Whitney Page, III

Brad,

You are doing well. No, I didn't have any record of Daniel Whitney in the War of 1812, aside from what you stated. It was a possibility, but not all veterans applied for or received pensions, especially if they had means.

To avoid the blank lines before and after the census records, first put a line break after the colon, and then put the <p class="Plaintext"> string at the beginning of the first line of the record, and </p> at the end of the last line. I have made these adjustments for you on Daniel's page.

- Robert Ward - Talk to me 11:47, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Re: Daniel Whitney Update II

Brad,

Thanks for keeping me up to date with your research.

You wrote: >I suspect it will be another month before I receive my bible record from the DAR so I can add references.

When you do, there is the Archive:Bible Records page where you can post a transcription.

>I still have pages to add for some of the children’s children.

All such additions are welcome.

>It’s also interesting that this Daniel married a Marsh as well; probably just a coincidence.

I'm not so sure that this is a coincidence. There are many, many examples of cousin marriages.

>While digging around, I’ve found some records for other Whitney’s outside of the scope of my family. Is it ok to add those to their family pages provided I have references?

Absolutely! The more we can compile about Whitney individuals, the better.

- Robert Ward - Talk to me 11:31, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Re: Daniel Whitney Update IIa

Brad,

I'm delighted that you have a plausible theory to pursue about Arvilla's parentage! It also supports the parentage of Daniel, her husband, as a possible son of Daniel and Eunice (Marsh) Whitney. A look at Chesterfield, NH, is clearly in order for the Marsh family. I notice that there is a Moses Marsh in Keene, NH, in 1790 and 1800.

- Robert Ward - Talk to me 08:33, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Re: Daniel Whitney Update IIb

Brad,

You're way ahead of me on the censuses. Good work!

The only reason I mentioned Chesterfield, NH, is that that is where Daniel and Eunice (Marsh) Whitney were about 1790. I thought possibly Moses Marsh may have lived near them, not only in NY, but earlier in NH, too. You point out that he was probably still living at home in Douglas, MA, in 1800, which would negate that idea. Daniel and Eunice (Marsh) Whitney seem to have left Chesterfield long before Moses Marsh, their brother-in-law, left home.

I found some family trees on Ancestry.com which said that Moses Marsh's wife was Betty/Elizabeth Lyon. This wife belonged to a different, older Moses Marsh. I have no idea who the wife of Moses, son of Ebenezer, may have been.

Your suggestion that the census taker may have written "Samuel" when correct might have been "Daniel" is possible, but cannot be assumed without further evidence to support it. The image is very clear, and definitely says "Samuel". It is true that every census record extant is a copy, so there could also have been a copying error.

- Robert Ward - Talk to me 13:12, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Re: Daniel Whitney Update III

Brad,

Your census records are thought-provoking. I don't know what to make of the Samuel Whitney records you have found, but I would be VERY hesitant to include Whittlesey as a misspelling of Whitney.

As far as identifying the Samuel Whitneys of the census with those you have found in our family group records, this is just a guess. One (or more) of the latter may be one (or more) of the former, but there is no evidence for such except for identity of names and range of birth dates. Leaping to such a conclusion is not warranted.

As far as identifying any of them as the father of Daniel, the evidence for this is very weak. It's a theory, and you can pursue it if you wish, but I am not optimistic about the possibility of confirming it.

- Robert Ward - Talk to me 17:14, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Re: Wills & Probate

Brad,

In New York, all probate records are held at the county level, in the hands of the Surrogate Court. It is somewhat difficult and/or expensive to get copies by mail. Probably it would be easier to hire someone local to go to the courthouse and examine the records for you.

I call your attention to an on-line source: <http://www.sampubco.com> This website has indexes to the wills for the counties of New York state (among others), and will sell you a copy of any particular one or ones you want. It does not deal with administrations, guardianships, or any other kind of probate records.

- Robert Ward - Talk to me 17:19, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Re: End of the Road

Brad,

I wouldn't be so pessimistic about your research. Probate and/or land records may help, and the local historians might well do such look-ups locally without charge. They are paid by the state for work that includes that kind of thing. Furthermore, DNA results could well prove that Daniel was (or wasn't) a Whitney by birth. Another resource you might consider is your local Family History Center, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. It is free to use, and if you order up records on microfilm, it is inexpensive to rent them (under $5 for 3 weeks, if I recall correctly).

Something I have observed is that oftentimes the solution to a problem like this comes from a totally unexpected direction. As an example, an old letter might turn up some day providing a key clue.

I am still leaning toward the theory that your Daniel was a son of Daniel and Eunice (Marsh) Whitney of Chesterfield, NH.

Do keep me informed about anything "Whitney" that you encounter. Best luck with your research!

- Robert Ward - Talk to me 12:14, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Re: Additional Whitney Data

Brad,

You've been busy! Chasing Vashni's brothers is definitely a good idea, and I'm glad you have tried to do that. I'll address your questions in order.

Agreed, Calvin vanishes, and probably died before 1850 without having had a family. I'd just say that he doesn't appear in any known census record, and apparently died young. By the way, be sure to search also for variants in spelling, such as Witney, Wittney, Whittney, Whiteney, Whitny, Witny, Wittny, Whittny, Whiteny, and so on, and even Widney and Whiting and their variants. I've tried to do this when compiling the census pages, but it is likely that I've missed a few families for that kind of reason.

Yes, please create a page for the "other" George Whitney you eliminated. He definitely falls in the Parentage Unknown category. Unfortunately the "Whitneys by Given Name" pages are not up to date with respect to the section listing children without their own pages. The other sections are good. I keep bugging Tim Doyle to run his bot to do that updating, but he hasn't followed through on that for quite some time.

Please also create a page for the George Whitney who was not eliminated. On it I would put that he was "probably" (or "perhaps", or "possibly", whatever you deem appropriate) the same George, son of Daniel, born in Chesterfield, NH, in 1785 (with a link to Daniel's page), but that this tentative identification is based on a process of elimination, together with similarity of names and ages, and geographical proximity, but that proof of such a connection is lacking. I would put a link to this new page on Daniel's under his son George's entry, with similar hedging language. At the bottom of George's page, I'd put him in the Parentage Conjectured category.

Whatever you do will be checked and possibly adjusted to fit our format standards.

The Mason Whitney information is mildly supportive of the Daniel-to-Daniel link.

You've done a lot of good things in your research, and I commend you for your energy and your technique. You've also done a good job of learning how to use and augment the WRG website. For that, I thank you.

Feel free to contact me any time. I'm happy to offer opinions and whatever help I can.

- Robert Ward - Talk to me 18:53, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Deleting a Page

Brad,

Only users with administrator privileges can delete pages. I'll take care of that for you.

I'll also create whatever category pages are required.

These tasks are part of what I signed on for when I became an administrator for the web site.

- Robert Ward - Talk to me 15:47, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

George Whitney

Brad,

I would agree that George of Ohio and George, son of Daniel, are very likely to be the same person. Information on gravestones about ages or birth dates were put there many years after the person's birth, and after the person's death, by someone else. As a result, they are not considered primary sources of information. It could be the decedent was fibbing about his/her age, or that whoever told the stonecutter what to cut did not have the correct information. The fact that exactly two years are involved makes it even more suspicious that the gravestone was off.

I would include a section called "Notes" after the children, and describe the discrepancy, and the possible reasons for it. That said, I would, indeed, identify the two Georges.

Thanks for all you have done on the web pages for this branch of Whitneys.

- Robert Ward - Talk to me 13:08, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

One George Whitney, Not Two

Brad,

First you wrote, "I was cleaning-up/deleting some temporary family trees I created on Ancestry.com and decided to take one last look at the tree I had created for George Whitney of Ohio. In doing a final record search, the birth record for George Whitney, son of Daniel was listed. It then dawned on me that there may be a link. I had determined the birth and death dates for George of Ohio from his headstone. The DOB of 11 Jan 1783 was exactly 2 years prior to the birth of George, son of Daniel. The census records indicate that George of Ohio was born in New Hampshire as well. A search of birth records in NH 1780-1790 only yielded one George Whitney; George, son of Daniel. I now believe that the birth date year on the headstone of George of Ohio is incorrect and that he is in fact the son of Daniel. Your thoughts? If you agree, I’ll start working on cleaning up the mess I created."

I replied, using what I understood to be your terminology above, "I would agree that George of Ohio and George, son of Daniel, are very likely to be the same person."

Then you wrote, "I guess I need some clarification of your response .... Are you saying they are one in the same or are you saying that George of Ohio is Daniel's son?"

I guess the answer to this last question is, "Both!"

- Robert Ward - Talk to me 10:47, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

DNA Results

Brad,

Yes, it's disappointing. If you read about this kind of situation on-line, you'll see that there may have been a "nonparental event" at some point in your purported line of descent.

Not all is lost, however! You might want to get some of your Whitney-surnamed cousins tested. They might agree with your results, or they might agree with one of the known family groups. That would help determine the DNA profile of Daniel Whitney, your earliest Whitney ancestor, and also help figure out where in your line the profile changed.

- Robert Ward - Talk to me 23:08, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Your DNA Results

Brad:

I have been monitoring the conversation between you and Robert concerning your recent DNA findings. Although you may be disappointed, think of it this way - dozens of members get their results and find that they are descendants of John. You, on the other hand, have been given something unique. Your family's story is different, and not yet fully told. It could be due to an adoption, an unfaithful wife, an illegitimate son born to a Whitney girl, or it could be that you are just a member of a different Whitney family. Take a look at our list of Whitney immigrants and you'll see, for example, that a Robert Whitney, who we currently know nothing about, immigrated into New York in 1795, just before your Daniel was born. Now I'm not saying that this must be Daniel's father, but just using this as an example that it could be. For all we know, all of us in the John & Henry branches might be the descendants of lower class Whitney families, while you may be the lone descendant of the Whitneys of Whitney. We just don't know yet. Don't give up, and keep working to tell your Whitney branch's true story. I suspect the identity of your Daniel will eventually be found in probate records, etc.

- Tim Doyle - Talk to me 09:48, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Harlan D. Whitney

Brad,

Check this out:

http://iagenweb.org/boards/winneshiek/obituaries/index.cgi?read=282513

- Robert Ward - Talk to me 13:52, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Index of Unknown Whitneys

Brad,

Such lists exist only for the very early censuses: 1790 through 1810. See Potential Heads of Households - 1790, and follow the links in the upper right-hand corner to the others. Tim Doyle and I examined the 1820 situation, and found the job a bit daunting, so we went on to other projects.

Would you be interested in working on a project like that?

- Robert Ward - Talk to me 12:30, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Index of Unknown Whitneys, II

Brad,

From the Main Page, look for the section entitled "Whitney Research Group". In that section, see the heading "Current Projects". Under that, see the link to the "Census Identification Project", and click on it. A page down is the heading "Task List", and under that are links to the four existing pages of potential heads of households.

These were created to help us look for heads of households in the census records, possibly under misspellings or omissions. The ones we found are so noted with links to the family group pages, and those we didn't are noted either as "MISSING" or with a possible explanation of why they weren't found. The parts listing census records not known to correspond to known heads of households was sort of an afterthought.

As far as a time crunch, there certainly isn't any. In fact, it has been several years since these pages were last worked on. The job of expanding the time scope has waited until now, and we are in no rush whatsoever to do that. We never dreamed of making it complete for all the census records on-line. Instead, we had discussed making family group pages for all the Whitney families we couldn't identify, even if we only had a single census record to work with, by making a "census reconstruction" for each. Other higher-priority projects have pushed this onto a back burner.

Something I am doing now may be related. I am building a personal database of the Whiting/Whiton/Whitten/etc. families of New England and New York. They are not as numerous as the Whitneys, but there are quite a few such families. So far I have 1,819 individuals, most of those leaving some record before 1850.

As you may have noticed, sometimes Whitney individuals have had their names transmuted to one of these sort-of-similar surnames in records, and vice versa. I have found a few previously unlocated records for Whitneys in this way, and I have identified some Whitney records with individuals with these other surnames. Some of the census records we have listed as Whitney may belong under other surnames. In the process I have been able to submit corrections to some records at Ancestry.com.

- Robert Ward - Talk to me 23:06, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

To Contact Me

Brad,

To make e-mail contact with me, go to my business website. At the bottom of the page, click on the e-mail link.

- Robert Ward - Talk to me 22:45, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Page Created

Brad,

With the help of Tim Doyle, I have created the page Potential Heads of Households - 1820, and populated it with the list of family group pages which seem to fit these criteria:

1. Male subject
2. Born after 1720 and before 1803, or unknown
3. Died after 1820, or unknown

Some of these pages probably are not relevant. For example, say a head of family was born about 1725 and died after 1770. He would fit the criteria, but if the last mention we have for him is in 1770, he is unlikely to be alive in 1820. Nevertheless, I have included them. I have annotated such cases as "Probably dead" on the earlier potential heads pages.

This was done using the wiki pages "Special Pages" --> "All Pages", WordPerfect word processor, Microsoft Excel spreadsheet, and the wiki editor, according to instructions provided by Tim.

Now that I know the process, it is possible to do the same for 1830 and 1840, which I intend to do in the near future. I'm not sure whether this is a useful thing to do for 1850, or not. Thoughts?

- Robert Ward - Talk to me 00:49, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Census Identification Project, 1820

Brad,

Good work so far! Thanks for that.

Your outline of the path ahead for this project is a good one. Tim Doyle has already begun annotating some of those on the list. I'll probably help, too. When we have done all we can on 1820, I'll create the page for 1830.

- Robert Ward - Talk to me 10:56, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Another Path

Brad,

Another simple way to get to the Potential Heads of Households pages is to type "1820" in the search box on the left of any page, click the "Go" button. That takes you to Archive:1820 Census Extracts, and near the top center is a link to the Potential Heads of Households - 1820.

Another way is from the Main Page, in the section "Whitney Records", to click on "Census Records". That takes you to Archive:Census Records. There, under the heading "Extracts", click on "1820". That takes you to Archive:1820 Census Extracts, and near the top center is a link to the Potential Heads of Households - 1820.

Still another way is from Archive:Census Records (as above), look for the section entitled "By Year". Click on "1820". On this page Archive:1820 Census Records, near the top, is a link to the Potential Heads of Households - 1820.

In all these cases, the same works for 1790 through 1840.

- Robert Ward - Talk to me 20:11, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Unknowns

Brad,

First of all, thanks for the work you've been doing. It is adding valuable information to the web site. Tim Doyle and I have been doing some work to assist.

With regard to the pages flagged for sons' pages needed, you'll notice that the father was born in or after 1800. I have slowly been adding those needed pages, starting from the earliest, and have reached that point (there are about 340 left to do). That means that the sons could not be heads of households in 1820 or 1830, and probably not in 1840.

As far as children who don't have their own pages, the lists at the bottom of the given name pages are out of date. I have been trying to get Tim Doyle to update them for a long time, but my requests have been ignored. I know he is busy, especially at tax season, but this is becoming an issue. I'll tweak him again about this.

As a work-around to deal with that, I go to the Search page (usually by clicking the "Search" button under the search box, which I leave blank), then I select from the namespaces listed there only the "Family" one, unchecking all others. Finally, I enter the name of the child I seek (in quotation marks) in the advanced search box at the bottom, and click on the "Advanced Search" button. This should give me a list of all the family group pages with that child's name appearing somewhere. Often there are many pages to be examined to try to find the child wanted. It unfortunately will miss the oldest child in the family, because of the generational superscript that appears in the middle of his/her name in the children list.

Ultimately, to deal with the unknowns, if we cannot find any way to connect them to knowns, then we planned to make pages for them, with "census reconstruction" for wife and/or children, and something in the "Notes" section explaining any conclusions we have drawn, or conjectures we have made, and why. For an example of the last, if an unknown appears in more than one census, why we think the records belong to the same individual. Of course we would add the category "Parentage Unknown" at the bottom of the page.

Adding these pages is quite a large task, as there would be one for every unknown from 1790 on!

- Robert Ward - Talk to me 12:48, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Whitney Cemeteries

Brad,

There are 19 "Whitney Cemetery" listings in the U.S.A., two "Whitneyville Cemetery" listings, one "Mount Whitney Cemetery", and one "Whitney Hill Cemetery", according to the U.S. Geological Survey's Geographical Name Information Server. The one in Jefferson Co., WI, is included among the 19.

We have a Places Named Whitney page, but mainly those listed are populated places, with a few others (such as Mount Whitney, CA). Conceivably we could have a section of that page listing cemeteries, but we haven't one now. That's my only suggestion about what you mentioned.

- Robert Ward - Talk to me 12:13, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Question on Deletion

Brad,

I see you deleted the following line: # [[Archive:1810 Census Extracts, New York#78|J. Whitney, No Twp Listed, Oneida Co., NY]], b. bef. 1765, wife, 3 chil. . Would you explain why, please?

- Robert Ward - Talk to me 20:23, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

My Mistake

Brad,

You did the right thing. I was just too dense to realize it. Sorry!

- Robert Ward - Talk to me 01:37, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Alfred Whitney 1830 Census

1. 14 on the unidentified 1830 list should be this family: Family:Whitney, Alfred (c1800-a1840)

Thanks!

Jeremiah Whitney

Thanks Brad for catching that! Guess I pasted the wrong link. I have gone in and corrected it. Thank you!

Cemetery Pages

Brad,

I have added the three cemetery pages for Herkimer Co., NY, you requested.

- Robert Ward - Talk to me 03:14, 17 February 2012 (CST)

Thanks

Thanks. Sorry to have caused confusion. L.D.

Over 40

Brad,

I have added the people 40-49 to the Potential Heads of Households - 1850 page, as you suggested.

- Robert Ward - Talk to me 11:27, 10 March 2012 (CST)